Do Humans Need Hate?
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09-05-2013, 02:09 PM
Do Humans Need Hate?
Whether it's political parties, religions, cultures, or even sports teams; it seems people need something or someone to hate. We're just not happy until put a monster under our beds. Maybe hate gives us purpose, or brings us together as a community? Is it something else?
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09-05-2013, 02:31 PM
RE: Do Humans Need Hate?
That's not hate. That's fear. The tribal instinct. Us or them. The other tribe, that we don't know and thus, it may pose a threat. I guess it made sense back then. But now that the world is our "tribe", this mentality is painfully outdated, backwards and disgusting.

Sadly, a lot of people seem incapable of letting go of it. We'll get there one day, I'm sure. But neither of us will be alive.




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09-05-2013, 02:31 PM
RE: Do Humans Need Hate?
Hate is a very strong word, but maybe you are using it in the "hating on someone" type of way.

But it seems that people thrive on controversy, and some more than others.

Maybe it's just upbringing (drama at home) or maybe it's innate.

Controversy can lead to new insights... given people are civil about it and think, lol.

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09-05-2013, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2013 03:03 PM by Misanthropik.)
RE: Do Humans Need Hate?
Without hate, how do we know what to cherish? Without hate, love is meaningless.

"I love you" is meaningful because it means precisely the opposite of "I loathe that you are in my presence. I want never to see you again. I don't care what happens to you." Without hate, "I love you" would be about as meaningful as (after gazing deeply into her eyes) "Red is a color."

It's accurate, but it doesn't exactly wet the panties, because it's just an expression of an everyday truth. That's why some couples I know refrain from saying "I love you" except on very rare, very special occasions. If it becomes commonplace, it loses its value. And the only way to prevent it from becoming commonplace is to have a contrast.

I dislike - and even hate - many people. The vast majority, in fact, and I've never been shy about admiting it. But I've been told directly that that is the very reason why my expressions of love to only the most worthy are so meaningful. "You're someone who hates everyone, but you keep me around and tell me that you love me. That makes me feel special."


Anyway, I don't think we'll ever outgrow hatred, because it's an important part of our overall psychology. We naturally favor some things and we naturally unfavor others. We "need" hate for a sense of contrast, and we'll likely always have it in some form or another. Even those who hate the fact that hate exists prove that it is inescapable.

EDIT: Unless, of course, we someday evolve into wide-eyed circle-drummers who have a naturally constant flow of endorphins pouring over our brains. Which...I'm just not sure is gonna happen. But who knows.

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09-05-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: Do Humans Need Hate?
(09-05-2013 02:42 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Without hate, how do we know what to cherish? Without hate, love is meaningless.

"I love you" is meaningful because it means precisely the opposite of "I loathe that you are in my presence. I want never to see you again. I don't care what happens to you." Without hate, "I love you" would be about as meaningful as (after gazing deeply into her eyes) "Red is a color."

It's accurate, but it doesn't exactly wet the panties, because it's just an expression of an everyday truth. That's why some couples I know refrain from saying "I love you" except on very rare, very special occasions. If it becomes commonplace, it loses its value. And the only way to prevent it from becoming commonplace is to have a contrast.

I dislike - and even hate - many people. The vast majority, in fact, and I've never been shy about admiting it. But I've been told directly that that is the very reason why my expressions of love to only the most worthy are so meaningful. "You're someone who hates everyone, but you keep me around and tell me that you love me. That makes me feel special."


Anyway, I don't think we'll ever outgrow hatred, because it's an important part of our overall psychology. We naturally favor some things and we naturally unfavor others. We "need" hate for a sense of contrast, and we'll likely always have it in some form or another. Even those who hate the fact that hate exists prove that it is inescapable.

Now, that's a very personal take. Smile

And we sorely need a definition of "hate" in this discussion. Hate is not the same as dislike, or think they are an idiot, or what have you. Hate is wishing evil on them, that's the way I have it in my head. Hate goes way beyond rejection, it aims at destruction.

Love - the longer my husband and I were together, the more frequently we said "I love you" to each other. At first it was mostly passionate moments, but over the years it became an expression of general appreciation, respect and just plain affection. No "hate" needed.

I think there are probably a lot of personal takes on this...

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09-05-2013, 03:07 PM
RE: Do Humans Need Hate?
(09-05-2013 02:59 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(09-05-2013 02:42 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Without hate, how do we know what to cherish? Without hate, love is meaningless.

"I love you" is meaningful because it means precisely the opposite of "I loathe that you are in my presence. I want never to see you again. I don't care what happens to you." Without hate, "I love you" would be about as meaningful as (after gazing deeply into her eyes) "Red is a color."

It's accurate, but it doesn't exactly wet the panties, because it's just an expression of an everyday truth. That's why some couples I know refrain from saying "I love you" except on very rare, very special occasions. If it becomes commonplace, it loses its value. And the only way to prevent it from becoming commonplace is to have a contrast.

I dislike - and even hate - many people. The vast majority, in fact, and I've never been shy about admiting it. But I've been told directly that that is the very reason why my expressions of love to only the most worthy are so meaningful. "You're someone who hates everyone, but you keep me around and tell me that you love me. That makes me feel special."


Anyway, I don't think we'll ever outgrow hatred, because it's an important part of our overall psychology. We naturally favor some things and we naturally unfavor others. We "need" hate for a sense of contrast, and we'll likely always have it in some form or another. Even those who hate the fact that hate exists prove that it is inescapable.

Now, that's a very personal take. Smile

And we sorely need a definition of "hate" in this discussion. Hate is not the same as dislike, or think they are an idiot, or what have you. Hate is wishing evil on them, that's the way I have it in my head. Hate goes way beyond rejection, it aims at destruction.

Love - the longer my husband and I were together, the more frequently we said "I love you" to each other. At first it was mostly passionate moments, but over the years it became an expression of general appreciation, respect and just plain affection. No "hate" needed.

I think there are probably a lot of personal takes on this...

Hate can entail a wish or goal of destruction, but I'm not sure that's inherant.

As you said; we'd need a definition. And because it's an emotion, which is subjective (and because we use it so loosely, ex.: "I hate Pepsi"), can we really determine what hate is?

Ultimately, I think "An extreme dislike" pretty much sums it up, while leaving open the possibility of someone aiming toward destruction as a result of their extreme dislike. But, that's me.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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09-05-2013, 03:16 PM
RE: Do Humans Need Hate?
Hey, Vera.

I'd argue against the tribal instinct and say that monoculture is a bigger threat to our species by far. So, I guess, y'know, you and me have to, like, fight now, or something?

Hey, Misanthrope.

Actually, the psychologist Rollo May argues that death is the ontological opposite of love rather than hate. Sooooooo, yawannafightabadit?

Hey, Manatee.

Well, I guess the argument would be that hate is there, so it must have some evolutionary purpose. My only counterargument to that would be that I think it's possible that we have been breeding psychotics for 5 000 years; the kind of people that will fight wars and fuck over their fellow humans and embrace hatred. They're the ones we reward. So perhaps that cultural imperative has caused hatred to become so powerful; meme/gene co-evolution style.

It seems obvious that humans have the capacity for hate. But that unconscious slavishness to it is as dangerous as unconscious slavishness to anything. It probably has it's advantages in some situations, but is clearly destructive if used all the time.

In terms of competition, our culture is obsessed with zero sum competition. One of the few exceptions is MMA. Here, you have two men/women who are trying to beat up the other combatant and who by all rights should at least be angry at one another, but when the fight ends, they embrace. It shows that competition doesn't have to be about hatred; even when it involves violence.

There will always be us vs them because there will always be competition. No organism is exempt from competition. It's an integral part of the evolutionary process. But competition doesn't necessarily demand hatred.

People often talk about "should". Like we should live without hate. Evolution laughs at should. Evolution only cares about is. That's one of the reasons I spend so much time figuring out the mechanics of human interaction. Figure out what enables hatred to thrive and reduce/eliminate that and you don't have to worry about should.

So I guess we need hatred, we just shouldn't worship at its altar.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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09-05-2013, 03:24 PM
RE: Do Humans Need Hate?
(09-05-2013 03:16 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Misanthrope.

Actually, the psychologist Rollo May argues that death is the ontological opposite of love rather than hate. Sooooooo, yawannafightabadit?

A psychologist waxing philosophical? Awesome. Doesn't make it scientific, though. Nor does his position as a psychologist. I used to work with a janitor who made profound arguments too.

Death is the opposite of life. Nothing more.

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09-05-2013, 04:13 PM
RE: Do Humans Need Hate?
(09-05-2013 03:16 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Vera.
So, I guess, y'know, you and me have to, like, fight now, or something?

Indeed we do. Bring it on, buster!
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09-05-2013, 04:25 PM
RE: Do Humans Need Hate?
Ghost, you better watch out, because I am with Vera.

A lot of hate is based on fear, fear of the different, fear of change, fear of the new.

Racism is based on fear, wars are based on fear(mongering), religion is based on fear and what have you.

Fear pervades everything.

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