Do I have this straight?.....
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24-07-2017, 01:29 AM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2017 01:39 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: Do I have this straight?.....
A couple more for you, which both apply to me:

Ignosticism: "God", when people bother define it at all, is almost always either incoherent or unfalsifiable. As such, it's a useless concept until it gets a better definition.

The exception is when it's used to relabel something else, like the universe. It's like a subset of agnosticism. Not only do I say "I don't know if this thing exists", most of the time I say "I don't know what you're even talking about". It rejects the word as a non-answer defined to be outside of any possible examination at best, and utter nonsense at worst.

Apatheism: Not caring if God exists or not.

This gives me a lot of clarity on the subject, because I couldn't care less what the facts are. Nothing would change if it turned out we're talking about something real. It would have no impact on me and my life. I only discuss it because I find the reasons people believe things to be interesting, and to try and combat the harm it often causes in various forms.

Do you think God interacts with us in specific ways? If so, how come we're able to scientifically model things with extreme accuracy, without these unpredictable interactions ever becoming a factor? If you believe the scientific method can in any way tell us something about God, maybe you could define what God is.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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24-07-2017, 03:06 AM
RE: Do I have this straight?.....
(24-07-2017 01:29 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  A couple more for you, which both apply to me:

Ignosticism: "God", when people bother define it at all, is almost always either incoherent or unfalsifiable. As such, it's a useless concept until it gets a better definition.

The exception is when it's used to relabel something else, like the universe. It's like a subset of agnosticism. Not only do I say "I don't know if this thing exists", most of the time I say "I don't know what you're even talking about". It rejects the word as a non-answer defined to be outside of any possible examination at best, and utter nonsense at worst.

Apatheism: Not caring if God exists or not.

This gives me a lot of clarity on the subject, because I couldn't care less what the facts are. Nothing would change if it turned out we're talking about something real. It would have no impact on me and my life. I only discuss it because I find the reasons people believe things to be interesting, and to try and combat the harm it often causes in various forms.

Do you think God interacts with us in specific ways? If so, how come we're able to scientifically model things with extreme accuracy, without these unpredictable interactions ever becoming a factor? If you believe the scientific method can in any way tell us something about God, maybe you could define what God is.

Apistion. None-believer. From A - non, and pistos - belief

Somebody who does not believe in God and doesn't care about God.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

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24-07-2017, 06:01 AM
RE: Do I have this straight?.....
I'm an atheist about all God concepts, but whether I am a gnostic atheist or an agnostic atheist depends on which God concept is in question.
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24-07-2017, 06:08 AM
RE: Do I have this straight?.....
Gnostic atheist? Agnostic atheist? I don't bother splitting hairs. I'm simply an atheist. I don't believe that God doesn't exist. I know that God doesn't exist. As for other gods, I have no opinion, since no one has ever defined them or provided any credible evidence for their existences. Consider
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24-07-2017, 06:20 AM
RE: Do I have this straight?.....
I do rather look forward to the day when we can just take it as read that no one believes in fairy tales and not have to have a special word for non-believers in fairy tales.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-07-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: Do I have this straight?.....
(24-07-2017 06:08 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  Gnostic atheist? Agnostic atheist? I don't bother splitting hairs. I'm simply an atheist. I don't believe that God doesn't exist. I know that God doesn't exist. As for other gods, I have no opinion, since no one has ever defined them or provided any credible evidence for their existences. Consider

Well, in my case I investigated a number of different God concepts, and almost all have logical or factual contradictions. However, I consider the pantheistic God concept a bare possibility, however highly improbable it is.
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24-07-2017, 02:59 PM
RE: Do I have this straight?.....
(23-07-2017 09:44 PM)MorningStar Wrote:  Just wanted to pop in and tell everyone how much I appreciate their responses. I slept for most of the day then went to see Dunkirk. After reading this board for most the night last night, which resulted in a tad bit of sleep deprivation, then going to see Dunkirk I have to admit to some feelings of existential crisis...heh. Seriously, a lot of food for thought in your replies. I'll be pondering upon many of them tomorrow for sure.

Honestly, I came here to broaden my understanding, not any of yours. I apologize if that sounds a bit selfish. I'll get back to the questions that some of you asked as soon as I can. Might be a day or so....

Thanks again!


I just want to reiterate how refreshing it is to have a theist come here open to learn about our position. And to learn why we are not convinced of their god claims.

That is about all most atheists want of theists.

Wanting to broaden your understanding is far from selfish. It is commendable!
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24-07-2017, 06:44 PM
RE: Do I have this straight?.....
(23-07-2017 07:54 AM)MorningStar Wrote:  I just introduced myself in the Introduction forum and received my license to post!

I've been reading the forum all night, mostly the thread started by DarthMarth's introduction. I think I have already learned a few things (definition-wise) about atheists and agnostics. Below are a couple of statements upon my understanding. Please correct me if I'm off target.

Hard agnosticism - The existence of God is a question that cannot be studied scientifically so why bother with the question at all.
Hard agnosticism is the only position I can fully relate to from a purely scientific perspective along with my current ideas on at least some of God's qualities, if God exists.

On the other hand, soft atheism (at least as I currently understand it) accepts that God may exist and that it may be possible to study the question scientifically, but since no scientific evidence exists, soft atheists will not believe God exists.....which is somewhat different than straight up saying God does not exist, with certainty.

However, hard atheists believe that the question of God's existence can (and has) been studied scientifically and the overwhelming "evidence" is that God does not exist.

All three positions require that the scientific method is the only method that can acquire "knowledge".

Am I on the right track?

I know that a lot of this has probably been stated in other posts, but since I'm damn near delirious from lack of sleep, I'm hoping that I can get a quick affirmation or correction before heading to bed.
Thanks.

depends on who is labeling you. "they" labels us one way and "them" over there call us another.

basically, if the milli/fundy mentalist thinkers call you "not a real "whatever"" you probably are on the right track.
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25-07-2017, 12:27 AM
RE: Do I have this straight?.....
(24-07-2017 02:59 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 09:44 PM)MorningStar Wrote:  Just wanted to pop in and tell everyone how much I appreciate their responses. I slept for most of the day then went to see Dunkirk. After reading this board for most the night last night, which resulted in a tad bit of sleep deprivation, then going to see Dunkirk I have to admit to some feelings of existential crisis...heh. Seriously, a lot of food for thought in your replies. I'll be pondering upon many of them tomorrow for sure.

Honestly, I came here to broaden my understanding, not any of yours. I apologize if that sounds a bit selfish. I'll get back to the questions that some of you asked as soon as I can. Might be a day or so....

Thanks again!


I just want to reiterate how refreshing it is to have a theist come here open to learn about our position. And to learn why we are not convinced of their god claims.

That is about all most atheists want of theists.

Wanting to broaden your understanding is far from selfish. It is commendable!

This. I swear, for every genuine questioner we have come through here, we get twenty peddling bad apologetics, attacking us for positions we don't even hold, and trying to convert us without the least comprehension of why we don't believe in the first place.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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30-07-2017, 11:34 AM
RE: Do I have this straight?.....
(23-07-2017 09:44 PM)MorningStar Wrote:  Just wanted to pop in and tell everyone how much I appreciate their responses. I slept for most of the day then went to see Dunkirk. After reading this board for most the night last night, which resulted in a tad bit of sleep deprivation, then going to see Dunkirk I have to admit to some feelings of existential crisis...heh. Seriously, a lot of food for thought in your replies. I'll be pondering upon many of them tomorrow for sure.

Honestly, I came here to broaden my understanding, not any of yours. I apologize if that sounds a bit selfish. I'll get back to the questions that some of you asked as soon as I can. Might be a day or so....

Thanks again!

Still pondering or maybe experiencing a bit of dogma shock? Big Grin

I'd really like to hear how you respond to many of the comments that have been made. Do you think you understand why we don't accept the claims?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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