Do I need to explain myself?
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10-03-2013, 06:59 AM
RE: Do I need to explain myself?
(10-03-2013 06:48 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  ...
Your error is that you conflate the state of being baptised being superior to the state of not being baptised with Nacho feeling he is superior to Esqueleto.
In other words, just because Nacho feels baptism is superior doesn't mean that he feels he is superior.

So why did his actions indicate otherwise? Bullies think they are superior, or at least they behave that way.

Being baptised is in no way superior, therefore no conflation.

Subconsciously, of course, studies indicate that bullies have inferiority issues.
This makes sense in this case because, of course, religion teaches one to be subservient. Insists on it, in fact.

The bullied often feel the need to exert power over those to which they feel superior.

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btw, you are obviously unfamiliar with my track record on TTA. I do not make errors.

Hence my superior Rep.

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10-03-2013, 10:25 AM
RE: Do I need to explain myself?
(10-03-2013 03:58 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Thanks everyone for all of the advice! I've been an atheist for many years and I have talked about it with many different people. It was just way different when the conversation came up with someone I have known my whole life who used to take me to church and pray with me. Abandoning Christianity was difficult for me because it went against everything I was taught, but I never expected my very religious family to understand. I didn't tell anyone to fuck off-I actually tried to avoid the subject altogether. But when someone pushes for answers even though they are not open to accepting your reasoning, it is impossible. And to the guy (or girl, I forget) that told me I was going to hell---that is exactly how my family responds to me. It doesn't phase me when they say it and I certainly don't care what you think.
(10-03-2013 03:58 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 04:25 PM)Egor Wrote:  You basically told your family to F-off and so they ask you to explain yourself. But, like you said, you don't care.

How does telling her family she doesn't believe in God equate to she doesn't care about them?

You should be more like Nacho. You might actually convert an atheist then.

~Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.~
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10-03-2013, 10:31 AM
RE: Do I need to explain myself?
(10-03-2013 06:59 AM)DLJ Wrote:  although this makes perfect sense in the schoolyard, it may be a bit of a stretch in religion. Yes, they are taught to be subservient, but in the case of people I know I think they really are just that brainwashed and aren't open to other ways of thinking. It's like telling someone that horses don't exist--a person that has seen a horse will look at you like you are stupid and can't believe anything else you say. Although theists have not seen god, they are usually very convinced that they have experienced him. Good reasoning, but I don't think it's always the case.
(10-03-2013 06:48 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  ...
Your error is that you conflate the state of being baptised being superior to the state of not being baptised with Nacho feeling he is superior to Esqueleto.
In other words, just because Nacho feels baptism is superior doesn't mean that he feels he is superior.

So why did his actions indicate otherwise? Bullies think they are superior, or at least they behave that way.

Being baptised is in no way superior, therefore no conflation.

Subconsciously, of course, studies indicate that bullies have inferiority issues.
This makes sense in this case because, of course, religion teaches one to be subservient. Insists on it, in fact.

The bullied often feel the need to exert power over those to which they feel superior.

Thumbsup

btw, you are obviously unfamiliar with my track record on TTA. I do not make errors.

Hence my superior Rep.

~Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.~
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10-03-2013, 10:40 AM
RE: Do I need to explain myself?
(09-03-2013 01:52 PM)kellyrm Wrote:  After letting a few friends and family members know that I don't believe in god, I had an aunt demand that I explain my position to her. It caught me completely off-guard. While I don't have a problem justifying my beliefs, I don't feel like I owe her anything. I simply told her I don't believe in fairy tales and brushed it off. Over the past few months, I've had several other people question me as well. I've already learned that it is impossible to talk to the brainwashing effects of Christianity, so I try to save some effort and ignore the argument altogether. I don't walk up to Christians and demand that they explain their beliefs to me-I simply don't give a shit. Why do Christians (at least the ones I know) feel this sense of superiority that guides them to question my beliefs and demand an explanation? Have any of you been in this situation and have some advice? Sure, I can explain the hypocrisy of the bible and provide scientific explanations, but I know it will do no good. What would you do if encountered with these questions?
Its because they care for you probably.
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10-03-2013, 10:56 AM
RE: Do I need to explain myself?
(10-03-2013 10:40 AM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 01:52 PM)kellyrm Wrote:  After letting a few friends and family members know that I don't believe in god, I had an aunt demand that I explain my position to her. It caught me completely off-guard. While I don't have a problem justifying my beliefs, I don't feel like I owe her anything. I simply told her I don't believe in fairy tales and brushed it off. Over the past few months, I've had several other people question me as well. I've already learned that it is impossible to talk to the brainwashing effects of Christianity, so I try to save some effort and ignore the argument altogether. I don't walk up to Christians and demand that they explain their beliefs to me-I simply don't give a shit. Why do Christians (at least the ones I know) feel this sense of superiority that guides them to question my beliefs and demand an explanation? Have any of you been in this situation and have some advice? Sure, I can explain the hypocrisy of the bible and provide scientific explanations, but I know it will do no good. What would you do if encountered with these questions?
Its because they care for you probably.
They do-and I get that. When I was a Christian I felt sorry for anyone who didn't believe. I've been in her shoes and I understand her faith. This makes it even harder to talk to her because anything I say I know she will not be receptive to. I've been told to just speak my mind and plant seeds of doubt, but I don't think it's my place to make her question her faith.

~Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.~
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10-03-2013, 11:14 AM
RE: Do I need to explain myself?
(10-03-2013 10:56 AM)kellyrm Wrote:  
(10-03-2013 10:40 AM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  Its because they care for you probably.
They do-and I get that. When I was a Christian I felt sorry for anyone who didn't believe. I've been in her shoes and I understand her faith. This makes it even harder to talk to her because anything I say I know she will not be receptive to. I've been told to just speak my mind and plant seeds of doubt, but I don't think it's my place to make her question her faith.
If you want more conflict with her, I'm sure that will bring it. I'm sure she has seeds of doubt anyway. You will not be doing anything that is new. That is the human condition. Thomas was with Jesus for 3 years and had doubt. That is ok and is part of God's plan.

What made you lose your faith?
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10-03-2013, 11:20 AM
RE: Do I need to explain myself?
(10-03-2013 11:14 AM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  I've questioned the stories in the bible for as long as I can remember. But in college I took some religious studies class and that made it impossible to ignore the questions I already had. This prompted me to research different religions and the beliefs and science behind different things I was doubtful of. You say that doubt is part of god's plan, which I think is absurd of a "god" that wants people to believe and fear him. Stuff like that is what made me open my mind to atheism. The contradictions and lack of common sense in the bible and religious stories not only changed my mind, but made me feel like an idiot for believing all of it for so long.
(10-03-2013 10:56 AM)kellyrm Wrote:  They do-and I get that. When I was a Christian I felt sorry for anyone who didn't believe. I've been in her shoes and I understand her faith. This makes it even harder to talk to her because anything I say I know she will not be receptive to. I've been told to just speak my mind and plant seeds of doubt, but I don't think it's my place to make her question her faith.
If you want more conflict with her, I'm sure that will bring it. I'm sure she has seeds of doubt anyway. You will not be doing anything that is new. That is the human condition. Thomas was with Jesus for 3 years and had doubt. That is ok and is part of God's plan.

What made you lose your faith?

~Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.~
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10-03-2013, 11:34 AM
RE: Do I need to explain myself?
(10-03-2013 11:20 AM)kellyrm Wrote:  
(10-03-2013 11:14 AM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  I've questioned the stories in the bible for as long as I can remember. But in college I took some religious studies class and that made it impossible to ignore the questions I already had. This prompted me to research different religions and the beliefs and science behind different things I was doubtful of. You say that doubt is part of god's plan, which I think is absurd of a "god" that wants people to believe and fear him. Stuff like that is what made me open my mind to atheism. The contradictions and lack of common sense in the bible and religious stories not only changed my mind, but made me feel like an idiot for believing all of it for so long.
If you want more conflict with her, I'm sure that will bring it. I'm sure she has seeds of doubt anyway. You will not be doing anything that is new. That is the human condition. Thomas was with Jesus for 3 years and had doubt. That is ok and is part of God's plan.

What made you lose your faith?
A religious studies class in college which was likely not taught by a believer. Is that correct? I'm interested if that class spent as much time trying to debunk other religions as well. Maybe that should be balanced out by taking a good Bible study. Then you get both sides.

I think God wants faith and love from us. Since we have the ability to doubt and reject, we also have the ability for love and faith. Without having one, the other cannot exist in this world as we know it. In other words, if God revealed himself to you in all his glory, at that point, faith and love as we are able to give (by extending faith) is meaningless, you would then just be expected to obey.
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10-03-2013, 11:50 AM
RE: Do I need to explain myself?
I attended church twice a week from the time I was 3 until I was 22. I know the bible inside and out. The religious studies course was not an attempt to debunk any religion-it simply taught the different beliefs and customs of every religion and actually spent very little time covering Christianity. However, as a person who was monotheistic, it caught me completely off-guard to learn that all of these different cultures believed in so many different things and led me to question if Christianity was the right religion in the eyes of the god I so profoundly believed in. Muslims don't eat pork....what if the god I tried so hard to be faithful to didn't want me to eat pork? Am I sinning or are Muslims just doing it all wrong? Muslims (maybe it was Buddhists-I forget) shave their babies heads when they are born to cleanse the dirty sins from their mothers as an attempt to start a pure life. I didn't do that to my children....are they automatically condemned? The rituals were so different from religion to religion that I began to question if Christianity was the only way----which led me to believe it was all a crock. BTW, I don't know what religion the professor was, if any. She did not speak of herself and did not favor any religion or lack of religion...again the course was educational, not persuasive.
(10-03-2013 11:34 AM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  
(10-03-2013 11:20 AM)kellyrm Wrote:  
A religious studies class in college which was likely not taught by a believer. Is that correct? I'm interested if that class spent as much time trying to debunk other religions as well. Maybe that should be balanced out by taking a good Bible study. Then you get both sides.

I think God wants faith and love from us. Since we have the ability to doubt and reject, we also have the ability for love and faith. Without having one, the other cannot exist in this world as we know it. In other words, if God revealed himself to you in all his glory, at that point, faith and love as we are able to give (by extending faith) is meaningless, you would then just be expected to obey.

~Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.~
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10-03-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: Do I need to explain myself?
(10-03-2013 11:50 AM)kellyrm Wrote:  I attended church twice a week from the time I was 3 until I was 22. I know the bible inside and out. The religious studies course was not an attempt to debunk any religion-it simply taught the different beliefs and customs of every religion and actually spent very little time covering Christianity. However, as a person who was monotheistic, it caught me completely off-guard to learn that all of these different cultures believed in so many different things and led me to question if Christianity was the right religion in the eyes of the god I so profoundly believed in. Muslims don't eat pork....what if the god I tried so hard to be faithful to didn't want me to eat pork? Am I sinning or are Muslims just doing it all wrong? Muslims (maybe it was Buddhists-I forget) shave their babies heads when they are born to cleanse the dirty sins from their mothers as an attempt to start a pure life. I didn't do that to my children....are they automatically condemned? The rituals were so different from religion to religion that I began to question if Christianity was the only way----which led me to believe it was all a crock. BTW, I don't know what religion the professor was, if any. She did not speak of herself and did not favor any religion or lack of religion...again the course was educational, not persuasive.
(10-03-2013 11:34 AM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  A religious studies class in college which was likely not taught by a believer. Is that correct? I'm interested if that class spent as much time trying to debunk other religions as well. Maybe that should be balanced out by taking a good Bible study. Then you get both sides.

I think God wants faith and love from us. Since we have the ability to doubt and reject, we also have the ability for love and faith. Without having one, the other cannot exist in this world as we know it. In other words, if God revealed himself to you in all his glory, at that point, faith and love as we are able to give (by extending faith) is meaningless, you would then just be expected to obey.
Christianity is a belief in Jesus Christ. Belief in his resurrection as the son of God and accepting Him as Lord of your life is the what makes you a Christian. If you don't believe in this, you are out of the realm of Christianity and can follow whatever path you choose as far as food, shaving your baby, etc. If you believe in this, other religions are not valid (because they don't believe in this) and what they are doing is really of no consequence to you any more than what an atheist does.

How did learning about other cultures make you lose faith in Christ's resurrection?
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