Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
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22-11-2012, 08:11 PM
RE: Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
This joke comes courtesy of Bill Maher

What did the afghan photographer say when he was taking a picture?

"move over or I will cut off your arm"

Drinking Beverage

Complaints should be sent to Bill Maher.
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22-11-2012, 08:13 PM
RE: Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
anywho

about that poll of Israeli citizens and how they believe in fascist like rule over Palestinians.
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23-11-2012, 04:47 AM
RE: Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
(22-11-2012 08:09 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(22-11-2012 07:54 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I'm sorry, but just what do you think is different about this current escapade and the last twenty dozen or so?
nothing is different, the Israelis use force just to wave their dick in the Palestinians faces.
So why do you care if they have been doing this for decades? It doesn't affect you. What materials do you have invested in the conflict? Is there anything you or your radical opinions will change?

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23-11-2012, 05:15 AM
RE: Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
(22-11-2012 07:12 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The point is if countries ever want to expand/form/change, then people are gonna be displaced, killed etc..

And to be honest, I'd rather a Jewish state then a Muslim state.
Sure that sucks balls for the Muslim who got slapped in the face, but that's the way the world works. We (society, governments, companies, individuals) look out for our own personal best interests. And that's not limited to western culture thank you very much I&I.
As I wrote, not everyone will understand, because this idea of realism is still common. People are not angels, implicitly assuming that they can not change and improve.
The point is, we are supposed to use science. Even on social problems. Rain and snow was "the way world works" until some genius had the idea to drive a bear out of a cave and hide in there. Divine right of kings was "the way world works" until someone gave them a choice of constitution or guillotine. Syphyllis and scurvy were "the way world works" until people discovered vitamin C and antibiotics. Distance measured in days of march was "the way world works" until they invented airplanes. So don't tell me how the world works.
If we stop being defeatist and deterministic about "the way world works", we can do something about it. Just like so many times in history.
I find your lack of faith in science disturbing... Drinking Beverage

Guess what, the way how world works changes, because we change it. Before, wars weren't a problem. Nothing was a problem, all you had to do was to move over the next hill or next continent. Nobody had to think and change, as long as they could fight or flee. Today there is nowhere to hide. People are not angels, but chances are, they need to be in order to survive. And how do we go at it? Scientifically. The science says, that we use two different brain centers for selfish pleasure and selfless bonding. That means we can be selfish, but we can also be selfless. The deciding factor is the society, how does the world treat us and what kind of shit happens to us, basically, statistically, save for individual variation and factors we need to control for.
But don't tell me any bullshit about human nature, or I'll tell you something about wolf nature , fox nature , wild boar nature , urus nature and also about Habsburg Prussian Nazi evil empire nature.

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
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23-11-2012, 05:20 AM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2012 05:41 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
(23-11-2012 05:15 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(22-11-2012 07:12 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The point is if countries ever want to expand/form/change, then people are gonna be displaced, killed etc..

And to be honest, I'd rather a Jewish state then a Muslim state.
Sure that sucks balls for the Muslim who got slapped in the face, but that's the way the world works. We (society, governments, companies, individuals) look out for our own personal best interests. And that's not limited to western culture thank you very much I&I.
As I wrote, not everyone will understand, because this idea of realism is still common. People are not angels, implicitly assuming that they can not change and improve.
The point is, we are supposed to use science. Even on social problems. Rain and snow was "the way world works" until some genius had the idea to drive a bear out of a cave and hide in there. Divine right of kings was "the way world works" until someone gave them a choice of constitution or guillotine. Syphyllis and scurvy were "the way world works" until people discovered vitamin C and antibiotics. Distance measured in days of march was "the way world works" until they invented airplanes. So don't tell me how the world works.
If we stop being defeatist and deterministic about "the way world works", we can do something about it. Just like so many times in history.
I find your lack of faith in science disturbing... Drinking Beverage

Guess what, the way how world works changes, because we change it. Before, wars weren't a problem. Nothing was a problem, all you had to do was to move over the next hill or next continent. Nobody had to think and change, as long as they could fight or flee. Today there is nowhere to hide. People are not angels, but chances are, they need to be in order to survive. And how do we go at it? Scientifically. The science says, that we use two different brain centers for selfish pleasure and selfless bonding. That means we can be selfish, but we can also be selfless. The deciding factor is the society, how does the world treat us and what kind of shit happens to us, basically, statistically, save for individual variation and factors we need to control for.
But don't tell me any bullshit about human nature, or I'll tell you something about wolf nature , fox nature , wild boar nature , urus nature and also about Habsburg Prussian Nazi evil empire nature.
War is something that is impossible to remove from humanity. It is what makes us create things, this competition so many people seem to loathe. I understand some may feel as though the Israelis are abusing the Palestinians, and they are, but I feel it is none of our concern. The two factions will hate each other no matter what we do, and sadly enough, I feel as though one side will eventually have to perish or vacate the area.

As far as I and I's argument goes, he'd best start leaving the United States and giving the land back to the rightful Native owners if he wants me to take him seriously. He is so very ignorant of the past, and how it is completely cyclical.

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Poonjab
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23-11-2012, 07:23 AM
RE: Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
(23-11-2012 05:15 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(22-11-2012 07:12 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The point is if countries ever want to expand/form/change, then people are gonna be displaced, killed etc..

And to be honest, I'd rather a Jewish state then a Muslim state.
Sure that sucks balls for the Muslim who got slapped in the face, but that's the way the world works. We (society, governments, companies, individuals) look out for our own personal best interests. And that's not limited to western culture thank you very much I&I.
As I wrote, not everyone will understand, because this idea of realism is still common. People are not angels, implicitly assuming that they can not change and improve.
The point is, we are supposed to use science. Even on social problems. Rain and snow was "the way world works" until some genius had the idea to drive a bear out of a cave and hide in there. Divine right of kings was "the way world works" until someone gave them a choice of constitution or guillotine. Syphyllis and scurvy were "the way world works" until people discovered vitamin C and antibiotics. Distance measured in days of march was "the way world works" until they invented airplanes. So don't tell me how the world works.
If we stop being defeatist and deterministic about "the way world works", we can do something about it. Just like so many times in history.
I find your lack of faith in science disturbing... Drinking Beverage

Guess what, the way how world works changes, because we change it. Before, wars weren't a problem. Nothing was a problem, all you had to do was to move over the next hill or next continent. Nobody had to think and change, as long as they could fight or flee. Today there is nowhere to hide. People are not angels, but chances are, they need to be in order to survive. And how do we go at it? Scientifically. The science says, that we use two different brain centers for selfish pleasure and selfless bonding. That means we can be selfish, but we can also be selfless. The deciding factor is the society, how does the world treat us and what kind of shit happens to us, basically, statistically, save for individual variation and factors we need to control for.
But don't tell me any bullshit about human nature, or I'll tell you something about wolf nature , fox nature , wild boar nature , urus nature and also about Habsburg Prussian Nazi evil empire nature.

How the fuck did you get that I'm opposed to scientific progress from my post????
seriously???
I mean, did you even read it!?

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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23-11-2012, 01:58 PM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2012 02:16 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
(23-11-2012 05:20 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  War is something that is impossible to remove from humanity. It is what makes us create things, this competition so many people seem to loathe.
We are more than creative enough in peace. War only speeds up creativity, because it's an emergency so there's increased funding, bianco chheck from governments or even no money requirements whatsoever, resources are confiscated directly for production. Also, competition belongs to sports, it is otherwise a very inefficient method. It produces just one winner and wastes effort on making others lose.
War is actually simple (not easy) to remove from humanity. War follows certain causes. All we need is to change into such a kind of society in which such causes are not present. If we do it, wars will not occur. There is no god of war that causes wars about whom we can't do anything.
Among the several steps needed is global sharing of resources, empowerment of women and a simple "attack the attacker" policy. Plus of course a fair public forum that allows to negotiate any kind of problems without violence.

(23-11-2012 05:20 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I understand some may feel as though the Israelis are abusing the Palestinians, and they are, but I feel it is none of our concern. The two factions will hate each other no matter what we do, and sadly enough, I feel as though one side will eventually have to perish or vacate the area.
Every time you have an idea, try to imagine what would it be if everyone acted upon it, not just one nation or one person. In this case, there is such a thing as international law. It is our concern, because Israel will not commit just a little local genocide, "acceptable" as it might seem to you. Israel is a danger to stability in the whole region and the world, it has nuclear bombs and it threatens other states like Iran, that is pressured into nuclear armament.
(23-11-2012 07:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  How the fuck did you get that I'm opposed to scientific progress from my post????
seriously???
I mean, did you even read it!?
You may be enthusiastic about science, but you seem to disregard the people as a subject. (all internet skeptics have a tendency to that) Nations want to expand. Which is bad. Let's study this phenomenon. Why do they need to expand and how do we prevent it? Is it just population pressure or is it a religious thing? Population pressure can be helped by empowerment of women and demographic revolution. If it's some leaders keeping the people uneducated and manipulated, there must be other methods.

I don't see any social science enthusiasts around. I'm so ignorant about society, I don't see scientific development of a better decision-making (political) system. If people can design a computer chip with an optimal flow of electricity, why can't they design a govenrment system with an optimal flow of power? I don't see a science of activism, or even organizing a grassroots revolution and democratizing the state. I don't see a science of communicating ideas in a way that bypasses fanatical closed-mindedness. What about a study of social bonding (goodness, charity) and factors that cause greed and alienation? What about a market, that would apply such findings into the practice? Why politicians read Keynes and Hayek, but not Maslow and Skinner?

Where's the problem, don't you think the scientific method can be applied to these questions? Did it ever occur to you?

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
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23-11-2012, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2012 02:37 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
(23-11-2012 01:58 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Among the several steps needed is global sharing of resources, empowerment of women and a simple "attack the attacker" policy. Plus of course a fair public forum that allows to negotiate any kind of problems without violence.
It fails at the very first step. As long as capitalism is the established economy system, it's not going to happen.

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23-11-2012, 02:55 PM
RE: Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
(23-11-2012 02:34 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(23-11-2012 01:58 PM)Luminon Wrote:  mong the several steps needed is global sharing of resources, empowerment of women and a simple "attack the attacker" policy. Plus of course a fair public forum that allows to negotiate any kind of problems without violence.
It fails at the very first step. As long as capitalism is the established economy system, it's not going to happen.
Let's say, if both dollar and euro lost their value, do you think it might help? You know dollar isn't very healthy and I recently learned that euro is even worse off. European central bank did several steps very similar to Fed, only in a very stupid way and now EU is getting bankrupt. It's only a question if it happens in 2 years or holds out for 40 years like the Soviets.
No complete abolition of capitalism, I mean just a basic level like nationalization of natural resources and their barter. It kind of happened during WW2 and may happen again. Do you think the U.S. government bought all the airplanes that it launched at the Japanese?

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
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24-11-2012, 03:08 AM
RE: Do Israeli citizens support a fascist racist government or are they democratic?
(23-11-2012 01:58 PM)Luminon Wrote:  We are more than creative enough in peace. War only speeds up creativity, because it's an emergency so there's increased funding, bianco chheck from governments or even no money requirements whatsoever, resources are confiscated directly for production. Also, competition belongs to sports, it is otherwise a very inefficient method. It produces just one winner and wastes effort on making others lose.
War is actually simple (not easy) to remove from humanity. War follows certain causes. All we need is to change into such a kind of society in which such causes are not present. If we do it, wars will not occur. There is no god of war that causes wars about whom we can't do anything.
Among the several steps needed is global sharing of resources, empowerment of women and a simple "attack the attacker" policy. Plus of course a fair public forum that allows to negotiate any kind of problems without violence.


Can you name an era in humanity's history in which we were peaceful? We have always been engaged in conflict, in war, in a some form of militaristic threat. Every place on the globe has been involved in war for nearly every year it has been on this Earth. America, the world's technological capital, has been engaged in wars constantly, external or internal, for its 250 year existence.

It is no simple task to remove war, for if it were, it would have been done already. You think it is as simple as changing our society? How do you propose we change it? "All" we need to do? You make such an evolution sound simple, but I assure you it is not. You would not only have to change society, but remove the long-time feuds and hatreds many nations have for each other. Good luck getting India and Pakistan to demilitarize their borders.

(23-11-2012 01:58 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Every time you have an idea, try to imagine what would it be if everyone acted upon it, not just one nation or one person. In this case, there is such a thing as international law. It is our concern, because Israel will not commit just a little local genocide, "acceptable" as it might seem to you. Israel is a danger to stability in the whole region and the world, it has nuclear bombs and it threatens other states like Iran, that is pressured into nuclear armament.


Did I say it was acceptable? I said it is none of our concern. Yes, the nation has nuclear weapons, but give them some credit. They are not irrational, and they know the consequences of the use of such weapons. Iran's securing of nuclear arms is, in their view, an insurance policy. In some ways it is, but when nearly the entire world knows precisely what the weapons do, no one is willing to use them (with the exception of Islamic extremists).

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