Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 3 Votes - 3.33 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-07-2017, 02:21 PM
Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
I thought I would canvas this point after seeing a video where Israelis were asked in the street what they thought about Jesus.





Most of them replied that they knew he was the central figure in Christianity but didn't have any knowledge about him or what he taught.

It occurred to me that a lot of talk on here which is heavily critical of Christianity in its evangelical manifestation assumes that Christians accept the Old Testament as being as much a part of their religion as the New Testament. They then suggest that when fundamentalists quote from the Old Testament referring to exhortations to beat slaves that this is Christian teaching.

I grew up going to church and have lived in a Christian society for 57 years. I've never heard any Christian suggest that the Old Testament stands on a par with the New Testament.

The Old Testament begins with Adam and Eve whose sons, in order to have families, must have had sex with their own sisters. Cain then murdered his own brother. Thereafter, the people of the Old Testament, up until Abraham, engaged in ritual sacrifice of their own children. The Old Testament recounts the history of a people who reaked revenge on their enemies, as in Psalm 137 by killing children:
"8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

The whole of the OT is replete with atrocities, treachery and violence. God spends most of his time meting out punishments to these people by way of all manner of pestilence, plagues, famines and natural disasters. He is so disgusted with them, that he eventually wipes them out with a flood, and the only survivor is a drunkard called Noah. The whole civilization collapses into the dust because it is so corrupt and the Romans have to take over and they wait for a messiah to come and sort the mess out.

Christians universally see the OT as a portrayal of a wayward, debauched and sinful people who only occasionally rise above the level of animalistic behaviour towards one another and have to be routinely punished and told to abandon their barbaric practices.

Christianity is supposed to be the answer to this with God coming to earth in human form and telling these people that it is only the meek and the poor who will be accepted into heaven. Jesus preaches tolerance and love to one another. It's the antithesis of the Old Testament.

I just wonder whether there is a perception of Christianity, on the outside, particularly in Judaism, as just a strange religion with a silly story about someone being raised from the dead, and, as a "sect" of Judaism, not really any different in substance from Judaism.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2017, 03:11 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(23-07-2017 02:21 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I thought I would canvas this point after seeing a video where Israelis were asked in the street what they thought about Jesus.

Most of them replied that they knew he was the central figure in Christianity but didn't have any knowledge about him or what he taught.

Judaism has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. That being the case, Jews do not ever read the NT. Christianity is not seen as a sect of Judaism, it's not an authorized offshoot, and it's not regarded as a "sibling" religion. Jews do not see themselves as being connected to Christianity in any way.

If you want to understand Judaism, the first step would be to throw out everything you understand about Christianity and learn from Jews from the ground up.

(23-07-2017 02:21 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  "8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

Properly translated and taken in context to the historical events going on at the time (as recorded in Jewish texts), this verse says, "Hey Babylonains, if you want to sacrifice human babies to your deity, why don't you sacrifice your own babies instead of kidnapping and sacrificing ours?" It's not encouraging the Babylonians to commit infanticide, it's challenging them to view human sacrifice from a different perspective.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Aliza's post
23-07-2017, 03:54 PM (This post was last modified: 23-07-2017 03:57 PM by Brian37.)
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(23-07-2017 03:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 02:21 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I thought I would canvas this point after seeing a video where Israelis were asked in the street what they thought about Jesus.

Most of them replied that they knew he was the central figure in Christianity but didn't have any knowledge about him or what he taught.

Judaism has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. That being the case, Jews do not ever read the NT. Christianity is not seen as a sect of Judaism, it's not an authorized offshoot, and it's not regarded as a "sibling" religion. Jews do not see themselves as being connected to Christianity in any way.

If you want to understand Judaism, the first step would be to throw out everything you understand about Christianity and learn from Jews from the ground up.

(23-07-2017 02:21 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  "8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

Properly translated and taken in context to the historical events going on at the time (as recorded in Jewish texts), this verse says, "Hey Babylonains, if you want to sacrifice human babies to your deity, why don't you sacrifice your own babies instead of kidnapping and sacrificing ours?" It's not encouraging the Babylonians to commit infanticide, it's challenging them to view human sacrifice from a different perspective.

Interpretations depend on the individual or family or sect, IN BOTH Christianity and Jewish religions. in all religions for that matter. But where do you get the idea that the two religions are not connected? Jewish, Christianity and Islam all have the same God of Abraham.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2017, 04:24 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(23-07-2017 03:54 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 03:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Judaism has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. That being the case, Jews do not ever read the NT. Christianity is not seen as a sect of Judaism, it's not an authorized offshoot, and it's not regarded as a "sibling" religion. Jews do not see themselves as being connected to Christianity in any way.

If you want to understand Judaism, the first step would be to throw out everything you understand about Christianity and learn from Jews from the ground up.


Properly translated and taken in context to the historical events going on at the time (as recorded in Jewish texts), this verse says, "Hey Babylonains, if you want to sacrifice human babies to your deity, why don't you sacrifice your own babies instead of kidnapping and sacrificing ours?" It's not encouraging the Babylonians to commit infanticide, it's challenging them to view human sacrifice from a different perspective.

Interpretations depend on the individual or family or sect, IN BOTH Christianity and Jewish religions. in all religions for that matter. But where do you get the idea that the two religions are not connected? Jewish, Christianity and Islam all have the same God of Abraham.
Not to mention the fact that Jesus was a Jew preaching to Jews and the only reason Christianity spread to Gentiles was because of people like Paul and Peter (also Jews).

More Min Gee Ziss
[Image: giphy.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2017, 04:27 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
Yeah, what would Aliza know about this subject...what with being Jewish and all. Dodgy

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Anjele's post
23-07-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(23-07-2017 03:54 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 03:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Judaism has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. That being the case, Jews do not ever read the NT. Christianity is not seen as a sect of Judaism, it's not an authorized offshoot, and it's not regarded as a "sibling" religion. Jews do not see themselves as being connected to Christianity in any way.

If you want to understand Judaism, the first step would be to throw out everything you understand about Christianity and learn from Jews from the ground up.


Properly translated and taken in context to the historical events going on at the time (as recorded in Jewish texts), this verse says, "Hey Babylonains, if you want to sacrifice human babies to your deity, why don't you sacrifice your own babies instead of kidnapping and sacrificing ours?" It's not encouraging the Babylonians to commit infanticide, it's challenging them to view human sacrifice from a different perspective.

Interpretations depend on the individual or family or sect, IN BOTH Christianity and Jewish religions. in all religions for that matter. But where do you get the idea that the two religions are not connected? Jewish, Christianity and Islam all have the same God of Abraham.

Christians are like stalkers in this regard. They keep imposing their deity on us and tell us what we believe. They won't stop using phrases like "Judeo-Christian," and telling everyone that they got all their ideas from us and that Jews are basically just Christians without Jesus. I've even heard the term "Jew-church" used by Christians who were flabbergasted to learn that we don't have Jesus in our religion. It's like we have an active restraining order, but they never abide by the terms.

The deity described by Christians is totally different from the deity described by Jews. The only reason that I can think of to explain why people think the Jewish deity and the Christian deity are the same is because they've never studied Judaism first hand.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Aliza's post
23-07-2017, 04:36 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(23-07-2017 04:27 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Yeah, what would Aliza know about this subject...what with being Jewish and all. Dodgy

I don't understand. That doesn't address the points we've made. Christianity and Judaism are demonstrably linked through history, even if current adherents to each tend to ignore each other.

Jesus was purported to be the Jewish Messiah, and the authors of the New Testament purposefully molded their narratives to include 'fulfillments' of prophecies written in the Tanakh. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Christianity is currently a sect of Judaism, since it's changed so much and practically ignores the Old Testament (except when Christians want excuses to be bigots or attack Science), but before people like Paul spread it around and made up completely new doctrines like Original Sin, it was really just Judaism + Messiah.

More Min Gee Ziss
[Image: giphy.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2017, 04:38 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(23-07-2017 04:36 PM)TSG Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 04:27 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Yeah, what would Aliza know about this subject...what with being Jewish and all. Dodgy

I don't understand. That doesn't address the points we've made. Christianity and Judaism are demonstrably linked through history, even if current adherents to each tend to ignore each other.

Jesus was purported to be the Jewish Messiah, and the authors of the New Testament purposefully molded their narratives to include 'fulfillments' of prophecies written in the Tanakh. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Christianity is currently a sect of Judaism, since it's changed so much and practically ignores the Old Testament (except when Christians want excuses to be bigots or attack Science), but before people like Paul spread it around and made up completely new doctrines like Original Sin, it was really just Judaism + Messiah.

I just think that you could have posed some questions to Aliza since she is our resident practicing Jew instead of dismissing what she said.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
23-07-2017, 04:43 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(23-07-2017 04:38 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 04:36 PM)TSG Wrote:  I don't understand. That doesn't address the points we've made. Christianity and Judaism are demonstrably linked through history, even if current adherents to each tend to ignore each other.

Jesus was purported to be the Jewish Messiah, and the authors of the New Testament purposefully molded their narratives to include 'fulfillments' of prophecies written in the Tanakh. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Christianity is currently a sect of Judaism, since it's changed so much and practically ignores the Old Testament (except when Christians want excuses to be bigots or attack Science), but before people like Paul spread it around and made up completely new doctrines like Original Sin, it was really just Judaism + Messiah.

I just think that you could have posed some questions to Aliza since she is our resident practicing Jew instead of dismissing what she said.

It was not my intention to dismiss the entirety of her response, only the sentiment portrayed in her sentence, "Judaism has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity," which remains, in my opinion, patently false.

Indeed, I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that "If you want to understand Judaism, the first step would be to throw out everything you understand about Christianity and learn from Jews from the ground up," since Judaism came first and retains traditions Christianity lost as well as new ones which it developed separately from Christianity.

More Min Gee Ziss
[Image: giphy.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2017, 04:55 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(23-07-2017 04:36 PM)TSG Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 04:27 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Yeah, what would Aliza know about this subject...what with being Jewish and all. Dodgy

I don't understand. That doesn't address the points we've made. Christianity and Judaism are demonstrably linked through history, even if current adherents to each tend to ignore each other.

Jesus was purported to be the Jewish Messiah, and the authors of the New Testament purposefully molded their narratives to include 'fulfillments' of prophecies written in the Tanakh. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Christianity is currently a sect of Judaism, since it's changed so much and practically ignores the Old Testament (except when Christians want excuses to be bigots or attack Science), but before people like Paul spread it around and made up completely new doctrines like Original Sin, it was really just Judaism + Messiah.

Suppose someone you don't know steals something from you and you report the object to the authorities has having been stolen. Then the criminal uses the object to commit a crime well after you filed your report. Are you responsible for the crime? (Don't pick it apart, I'm just trying to illustrate a point.)

The Christians took our religion, gutted it out and rebuilt it from the ground up. Jews bailed on it very early on before it ever was "Christianity" and Paul, being an uneducated cunt himself, really just superimposed what he sort of understood about Judaism onto the roman pagan religion of the region and marketed it to gentiles.

The proto-Christianity that Jews were a part of simply believed that Jesus was a good teacher and might have been the messiah. -The messiah isn't G-d. The messiah is a flesh and bone, normal guy with a specific pedigree. Christians changed the very definition of the messiah! They changed everything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Aliza's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: