Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
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26-07-2017, 07:14 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 07:05 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  . . . But it wasn’t a culture that imagined that God truly wanted them to perform human sacrifices. . . .

In fact from the opening book, from Cain and Abel, to Jonah, and throughout condemns taking innocent human life.

You could accuse the early Hebrews of all sorts of things, of killing entire tribes, woman and children, for taking girls as the spoils of war, etc.. but you can’t accuse them of practicing ritual human sacrifices.





Nah, but really.

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26-07-2017, 07:37 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 07:14 PM)TSG Wrote:  Nah, but really.

In the story God doesn't even have a speaking part, he doesn't command Jepatha to do anything. In the story Jepatha, foolishly promises that he'll sacrifice the first person he sees, if his enemies are handed to him. And the story has Jepatha eating the words of this very promise, by having his daughter being that first person. The story has Jepatha crying over his own foolishness, upon seeing his daughter: "“Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low."

The story concludes with the daughters of Israel lamenting over Jepaha foolish promise, over his daughter's death.

The story does the exact opposite of endorsing Jepatha's promise of a human sacrifice. His actions are not praised. He himself is made to regret it.

The literary device is similar to the song Dance with the Devil, by Immortal Technique, when the rappers speaks of his own gang initiation, where he had to rape a women, only to find out the random victim he ended up raping in the dark, was his own mother.

Instead of praising the idea of human sacrifice, Jepatha's story brings a moral shock, moral apprehension to the act itself, and turns it's sympathies to the victim herself, with the people and Jepatha himself lamenting her loss.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-07-2017, 07:42 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
We know for a fact, the ancient Hebrews practiced child sacrifice.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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26-07-2017, 07:44 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 07:37 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-07-2017 07:14 PM)TSG Wrote:  Nah, but really.

In the story God doesn't even have a speaking part, he doesn't command Jepatha to do anything. In the story Jepatha, foolishly promises that he'll sacrifice the first person he sees, if his enemies are handed to him. And the story has Jepatha eating the words of this very promise, by having his daughter being that first person. The story has Jepatha crying over his own foolishness, upon seeing his daughter: "“Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low."

The story concludes with the daughters of Israel lamenting over Jepaha foolish promise, over his daughter's death.

The story does the exact opposite of endorsing Jepatha's promise of a human sacrifice. His actions are not praised. He himself is made to regret it.

The literary device is similar to the song Dance with the Devil, by Immortal Technique, when the rappers speaks of his own gang initiation, where he had to rape a women, only to find out the random victim he ended up raping in the dark, was his own mother.

Instead of praising the idea of human sacrifice, Jepatha's story brings a moral shock, moral apprehension to the act itself, and turns it's sympathies to the victim herself, with the people and Jepatha himself lamenting her loss.

Yeah, my mistake. One might think God might have a few qualms about letting one of his servants ritualistically murder his daughter (at the very least he might refuse to allow it), but obviously it's better for him to let her die as a moral lesson. No

I also like how you compared a deal with God to a gang initiation. I didn't even have to. You're a pretty good atheist for a Christian! Thumbsup

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26-07-2017, 07:54 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 07:44 PM)TSG Wrote:  Yeah, my mistake. One might think God might have a few qualms about letting one of his servants ritualistically murder his daughter (at the very least he might refuse to allow it), but obviously it's better for him to let her die as a moral lesson. No

I also like how you compared a deal with God to a gang initiation. I didn't even have to. You're a pretty good atheist for a Christian! Thumbsup

It's a story. What God wants, or what his qualms are, are not a part of it. God is left out as an actor in the story. He endorses, nor advocates anything. He's not the question the writer is considering here.

And I don't read the bible as an Atheist, or a Christian, I read it like I do any other work of literature, or story. Any interpretation I have of it, doesn't require one to be a believer or an unbeliever to accept it.

I'd defend a reading of a passage, or story, no differently than if that story or passage were found in the Quran, or any other scripture of a religion I don't subscribe to myself.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-07-2017, 08:03 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 07:54 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-07-2017 07:44 PM)TSG Wrote:  Yeah, my mistake. One might think God might have a few qualms about letting one of his servants ritualistically murder his daughter (at the very least he might refuse to allow it), but obviously it's better for him to let her die as a moral lesson. No

I also like how you compared a deal with God to a gang initiation. I didn't even have to. You're a pretty good atheist for a Christian! Thumbsup

It's a story. What God wants, or what his qualms are, are not a part of it. God is left out as an actor in the story. He endorses, nor advocates anything. He's not the question the writer is considering here.

And I don't read the bible as an Atheist, or a Christian, I read it like I do any other work of literature, or story. Any interpretation I have of it, doesn't require one to be a believer or an unbeliever to accept it.

I'd defend a reading of a passage, or story, no differently than if that story or passage were found in the Quran, or any other scripture of a religion I don't subscribe to myself.

Quote:And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, 31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.

God doesn't make an appearance? He seems to be doing quite a bit for someone who doesn't make an appearance. And one would think that if an omnipotent being wanted to admonish a human for making an inhumane oath to sacrifice whatever came from his door (God's omniscient, so he already knew it would be his daughter), then he wouldn't let said human be so successful in battle. Shouldn't he have had Jephthah get his ass kicked until he learned how to make better oaths?

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26-07-2017, 08:12 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 07:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  We know for a fact, the ancient Hebrews practiced child sacrifice.

Do you have any archaeological evidence to prove this? DO we have any historical accounts from the time, writing of the Hebrews performing ritualized human sacrifices?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-07-2017, 08:25 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 08:03 PM)TSG Wrote:  God doesn't make an appearance? He seems to be doing quite a bit for someone who doesn't make an appearance.

God doesn't make an appearance. The writer doesn't give God a single role in the story, he doesn't assign him a single line. He doesn't have him doing quite a bit, he does nothing.

Quote:And one would think that if an omnipotent being wanted to admonish a human for making an inhumane oath to sacrifice whatever came from his door (God's omniscient, so he already knew it would be his daughter), then he wouldn't let said human be so successful in battle.

God's omnipotence, God's omniscience, God's moral judgement, God's view of the whole affair, is absent in the story. Your attempts to introduce these elements is just pretext. It has nothing to do with subtext of the story itself.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-07-2017, 08:27 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 08:12 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-07-2017 07:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  We know for a fact, the ancient Hebrews practiced child sacrifice.

Do you have any archaeological evidence to prove this? DO we have any historical accounts from the time, writing of the Hebrews performing ritualized human sacrifices?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/valerie-ta...77340.html

Quote:And I don't read the bible as an Atheist, or a Christian, I read it like I do any other work of literature, or story.

And that's your problem. It's not "any other work of literature". The texts had specific purposes, and came from a specific culture. Neither of which you have any clue about. Therefore you fell free to make up anything that suits you about the "story" you reinterpret with you modern view. There's a name for that. It's called Presentism.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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26-07-2017, 08:32 PM
Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 08:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-07-2017 08:12 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you have any archaeological evidence to prove this? DO we have any historical accounts from the time, writing of the Hebrews performing ritualized human sacrifices?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/valerie-ta...77340.html

So that’s a no.

You have no archaeological evidence to support your claim. You have no historical accounts from the time indicating that this took place either.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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