Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
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26-07-2017, 08:34 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 08:25 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  God doesn't make an appearance. The writer doesn't give God a single role in the story, he doesn't assign him a single line. He doesn't have him doing quite a bit, he does nothing.

I literally just showed you direct quotes which said that God used his powers to help Jephthah slay his enemies, in accordance with the oath which Jephthah had made.
Quote:[quote]
God's omnipotence, God's omniscience, God's moral judgement, God's view of the whole affair, is absent in the story. Your attempts to introduce these elements is just pretext. It has nothing to do with subtext of the story itself.

God's omnipotence and omniscience are an integral and endemic part of his nature. Why in the world would we assume that such attributes don't exist here?

Imagine an extra story from the The Hobbit where Bilbo's running around trying to escape from some sort of monster. We know that Bilbo has the Ring, right? So why in the world wouldn't he just put it on to escape?

We know God's omnipotent and omniscient, right? So why in the world is he letting this abomination happen on his watch?

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26-07-2017, 08:41 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 02:31 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(26-07-2017 02:08 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Then the NT goes on to say that Jesus is the son of Joseph ...

Well, not exactly. There are two Gospels (Matthew and Luke) that give genealogies of Jesus.

Matthew only goes as far as Joseph, and then says that he was the husband of Mary, who was the mother of Jesus. It seems to me that he takes pains not to say that Joseph is the father of Jesus.

Luke says that Jesus was the son (as was supposed) of Joseph. So he also implies that Joseph was not the real father.

I'm pretty sure that Christian theology (no matter the denomination) universally professes the virgin birth, and Joseph as stepfather only. I have never heard any Christian interpret it as you do.

Yes, Mark begins with the story of John the Baptist, I recall, and John rambles on about the Word. If you read the gospels and compare various stories, they tend to cover different aspects of the narrative, as though they are filling in gaps in the story.

If the NT states that Jesus has a genealogy going back to King David, then, on it's face, its saying that Joseph was his father. That's is the plain reading of it and doesn't require one to "suppose" anything.

What you've done is quite typical of NT analysis. It says something very clear which we can all understand, ie., Jesus is descended from King David through his father's side of the family. That is something which we all understand. So, accept that. Then look at what it says about immaculate conception. What the NT says is vague, unscientific, involves angels talking to a young girl in double speak using terms we have to stretch to understand. So, discount it...

No, obviously, you say, I'm wrong. It's obvious that this all must mean she was inseminated by God and that Joseph was plainly "not" Jesus' biological father.

This is an example of suspension of disbelief. "The term suspension of disbelief or willing suspension of disbelief has been defined as a willingness to suspend one's critical faculties and believe the unbelievable; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment". wiki
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26-07-2017, 08:42 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 08:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-07-2017 08:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/valerie-ta...77340.html

So that’s a no.

You have no archaeological evidence to support your claim. You have no historical accounts from the time indicating that this took place either.

Unfortunately for you, there is. Of course you know nothing about it, as you went to the crappiest Bible School/Camp in the world. Abraham was about to do EXACTLY what you are denying.

Deuteronomy 18:10
"Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft"

If the author has to waste their time talking about it, it was something they were concerned about.

http://christ.org.tw/bible_and_theology/...ildren.htm
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromot...nt-israel/

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26-07-2017, 08:45 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
2 Samuel 21:3-9
David said to the Gibeonites, “What should I do for you? How can I pay for the sin, so you may bring good to the land of the Lord?” The Gibeonites said to him, “We will take no silver or gold from Saul or his family. And it is not for us to put any man to death in Israel.” David said, “I will do for you whatever you say.” So they said to the king, “Saul destroyed us and planned to keep us from staying in any land of Israel. Let seven men from his sons be given to us. We will hang them before the Lord at Gibeon on the Lord’s mountain.” And the king said, “I will give them.” But the king kept alive Mephibosheth, the son of Saul’s son Jonathan, because David had made a promise to Saul’s son Jonathan before the Lord. The king took the two sons of Aiah’s daughter Rizpah, Armoni and Mephibosheth, whom she had born to Saul. And he took the five sons of Saul’s daughter Merab, whom she had born to Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite. He gave them to the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the mountain before the Lord. The seven of them died together. They were put to death in the first days of gathering time, when the barley was ready to gather.

You don't willingly turn people over as sacrifices unless you accept the practice.

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26-07-2017, 08:46 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 08:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  . . .
If the author has to waste their time talking about it, it was something they were concerned about.
. . .

Wait... So does that mean the Hebrews had a problem with boiling baby goats in their mothers' milk? (Ex. 23:19) Gasp

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26-07-2017, 08:49 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sacri...w_Bible.29

"The most extensive accounts of child sacrifice in the Hebrew Bible refer to those carried out in Gehenna by two kings of Judah, Ahaz and Manasseh." [13]

13 : "Christopher B. Hays Death in the Iron Age II & in First Isaiah 2011 p181 "Efforts to show that the Bible does not portray actual child sacrifice in the Molek cult, but rather dedication to the god by fire, have been convincingly disproved. Child sacrifice is well attested in the ancient world, especially in times of crisis."

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26-07-2017, 08:54 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 08:34 PM)TSG Wrote:  God's omnipotence and omniscience are an integral and endemic part of his nature. Why in the world would we assume that such attributes don't exist here?

We know God's omnipotent and omniscient, right? So why in the world is he letting this abomination happen on his watch?

You're applying pretext.

Your attempting to read into the text a particular theology, particular understandings of God, and his nature, etc.... that do not have anything to do with the text itself. The story is not about any of the things you attempt to bring into it.

At least with the LOTR example, your dealing with a single cohesive story, which can't be said of the bible, with it's multitude of writers, over several centuries, exploring a variety of different themes and ideas. The writer of the Jepatha's story is not dealing with the nature of God, but the nature of Jeptha's tragic promise. To introduce those as questions here, involves bringing in elements that have nothing to do with the story itself.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-07-2017, 09:04 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 08:54 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-07-2017 08:34 PM)TSG Wrote:  God's omnipotence and omniscience are an integral and endemic part of his nature. Why in the world would we assume that such attributes don't exist here?

We know God's omnipotent and omniscient, right? So why in the world is he letting this abomination happen on his watch?

You're applying pretext.

Your attempting to read into the text a particular theology, particular understandings of God, and his nature, etc.... that do not have anything to do with the text itself. The story is not about any of the things you attempt to bring into it.

At least with the LOTR example, your dealing with a single cohesive story, which can't be said of the bible, with it's multitude of writers, over several centuries, exploring a variety of different themes and ideas. The writer of the Jepatha's story is not dealing with the nature of God, but the nature of Jeptha's tragic promise. To introduce those as questions here, involves bringing in elements that have nothing to do with the story itself.

Wrong. The entire culture had a general and very specific concept of their god (Yahweh). Trying to deny the underlying cultural assumptions to make it all nice is dishonesty ... something we are very used from you.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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26-07-2017, 09:10 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
What's currently the best apologetic reason for why Mark didn't mention the birth of Jesus?
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26-07-2017, 09:11 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(26-07-2017 08:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sacri...w_Bible.29

"The most extensive accounts of child sacrifice in the Hebrew Bible refer to those carried out in Gehenna by two kings of Judah, Ahaz and Manasseh." [13]

13 : "Christopher B. Hays Death in the Iron Age II & in First Isaiah 2011 p181 "Efforts to show that the Bible does not portray actual child sacrifice in the Molek cult, but rather dedication to the god by fire, have been convincingly disproved. Child sacrifice is well attested in the ancient world, especially in times of crisis."

Let's see:

Ahaz: "but he walked in the way of the kings of Israel. He even burned his son as an offering, according to the abominable practices of the nations whom the LORD drove out before the people of Israel."

Manasseh:"And he burned his son as an offering, and practiced soothsaying and augury, and dealt with mediums and with wizards. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking him to anger."

I guess deeming a practice as an abomination, as evil, counts as an endorsement.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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