Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 3 Votes - 3.33 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-07-2017, 10:28 AM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
Why would anyone with even a modicum of intelligence bother reading either the OT or NT.

Time to relegate ancient fairy tales to the dustbin of history.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Minimalist's post
24-07-2017, 10:31 AM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(24-07-2017 08:47 AM)ImFred Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 08:31 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  Sometimes it's fun to get to a party late and see the furniture flipped over, broken bottles and blood everywhere, and the place on fire. For example, this thread.

Could you please state your ethnicity and religious affiliation?

I want to figure out who does and doesn't read this thread.

Religion and skin tone are NOT related. Humans certainly attach the two but that is a fallacious tactic. One cant leave their skin tone, but one can certainly ditch a religion of any label.

There has never been such a thing as a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist DNA sequence. Religions are only associated with geography, but our species has been migrating and mingling long before any written religion or nation existed.

I find your request irrelevant and precisely the distraction every religion hides behind. Our skin tones are due to DNA, not the artificial constructs humans call religions or nations.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-07-2017, 11:06 AM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2017 11:12 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(24-07-2017 10:24 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  All I’ve done is stated, that I hold it as true, that Christ is the messiah, God himself, the truth, the way and the life, regardless if his Jewish forbearers envisioned his arrival or not. She needs not believe in him, but I would never believe in her idea either, of the one that’s yet to come, because Christ is sufficient for me. That no truth will ever supersede his.

So you think god is a "him". Have you run a testosterone level on him ? (I think there might be home kits available).
The idea that a Jew, (Jesus) attained or has the *same* rank as Yahweh, is SO utterly antagonistic to the culture that Jesus (supposedly) came from, that no one who knows ANYTHING about ancient cultures would even think of repeating that gibberish.

Actually all that religious gibberish are nothing but learned memes floating around in your head, that your brain connects together, in whatever way it wants, for whatever reason it decides to connect them. There is nothing different in the world since this messiah (supposedly) arrived, and nothing has changed because of him. "Messiah" in 2017, is a meaningless invocation of an ancient meme that makes religionists feel all warm and fuzzy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
24-07-2017, 11:22 AM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
Most Jews probably don't read the NT, but there are certainly some who do. I have a Jewish Annotated New Testament at home, and I assume that the editors (all Jews) must have read it in order to annotate it. Given the proliferation of "Christian Annotated" Old Testaments (i.e., Jewish Bibles -- even calling it the Old Testament is an insult), it seems like poetic justice.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-07-2017, 11:34 AM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(24-07-2017 10:31 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 08:47 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Could you please state your ethnicity and religious affiliation?

I want to figure out who does and doesn't read this thread.

Religion and skin tone are NOT related. Humans certainly attach the two but that is a fallacious tactic. One cant leave their skin tone, but one can certainly ditch a religion of any label.

There has never been such a thing as a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist DNA sequence. Religions are only associated with geography, but our species has been migrating and mingling long before any written religion or nation existed.

I find your request irrelevant and precisely the distraction every religion hides behind. Our skin tones are due to DNA, not the artificial constructs humans call religions or nations.

Have you ever served in the armed forces?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-07-2017, 01:55 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(23-07-2017 04:32 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 03:54 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Interpretations depend on the individual or family or sect, IN BOTH Christianity and Jewish religions. in all religions for that matter. But where do you get the idea that the two religions are not connected? Jewish, Christianity and Islam all have the same God of Abraham.

Christians are like stalkers in this regard. They keep imposing their deity on us and tell us what we believe. They won't stop using phrases like "Judeo-Christian," and telling everyone that they got all their ideas from us and that Jews are basically just Christians without Jesus. I've even heard the term "Jew-church" used by Christians who were flabbergasted to learn that we don't have Jesus in our religion. It's like we have an active restraining order, but they never abide by the terms.

The deity described by Christians is totally different from the deity described by Jews. The only reason that I can think of to explain why people think the Jewish deity and the Christian deity are the same is because they've never studied Judaism first hand.


The many bat-shit crazy, fundamentalist branches of protestantism abandon their link to Judaism when they start reading the new and old testaments literally. I believe many more jews read their holy books allegorically. In a sense falling for a literal messiah already misses the mark.

Aliza, to your knowledge, do any jews think about Adam and Eve as literally created from scratch so that their children would be required to mate in order to get the human race going? I know there are some fundamentalist jews but do any of them stoop to such a literal and demented reading of the creation story?

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-07-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(24-07-2017 10:24 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 10:07 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  You're preaching this shit to a Jewish woman? What the hell's the matter with you. Give it a break, will ya?


I’m not preaching anything to her. I merely reiterated her very own statements in the past. If anything it’s her telling me that she’s the exclusive owner of the OT, and the very idea of messiah, and that’s us Christians can’t lay claim to it as well.

In fact unlike other Christians I can even concede that her perspective on what the early Jewish community, the OT writers would have imagined as a messiah, is likely accurate. And that this picture would be quite unlike a portrait of Christ.

All I’ve done is stated, that I hold it as true, that Christ is the messiah, God himself, the truth, the way and the life, regardless if his Jewish forbearers envisioned his arrival or not. She needs not believe in him, but I would never believe in her idea either, of the one that’s yet to come, because Christ is sufficient for me. That no truth will ever supersede his.

When you do that... when you say that we misunderstood what our own books were telling us, and that the cultural explanations handed down to us were wrong because we couldn't fathom the picture that Christians insist is painted very clearly in their OT, what you're really saying is that we were too stupid to read our own books and draw the same conclusions that you Christians insist is right.

Jesus isn't the Jewish messiah. He does not, in any way other than by merely being a Jew, fit any of the descriptions of the Jewish messiah. All he ever yammered on about was Rabbinic Judaism, and he never "corrected" the Jews apparent misunderstanding of their own book, or the view of the messiah. The character depicted in your NT was by all rights a Jew, talking Jewy stuff to Jews. I was told that he didn't even like gentiles and called you guys dogs.

But hey! He can be the Christian messiah, though. You guys can have him.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Aliza's post
24-07-2017, 04:18 PM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2017 04:21 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(24-07-2017 01:58 PM)Aliza Wrote:  When you do that... when you say that we misunderstood what our own books were telling us, and that the cultural explanations handed down to us were wrong because we couldn't fathom the picture that Christians insist is painted very clearly in their OT, what you're really saying is that we were too stupid to read our own books and draw the same conclusions that you Christians insist is right.

That’s not what I’ve done or claimed. The only verse in the OT that I can recall I’ve ever accused you of being wrong on, was one unrelated to Christianity, or Messianic expectations, and that’s regarding Psalms 137.

I’m not accusing you of misunderstanding the OT, I’m instead accusing the writers of those books of being wrong in regards to their future expectations. I’m not claiming that the Christian picture is painted clearly in the OT, in fact I’m claiming that exact opposite. That the OT writers could scarcely imagine the Christian picture. Christ in every way, Christianity in every way would have been a perversion of their very expectations. They would have been scarce to imagine the idea of a messiah who got strung up by their oppressors.


When it comes to the OT here, and Jewish messianic expectations of the time, there’s likely to be far more agreement than disagreement among us.

Messianic longings are not an exclusively jewish things, it’s a feature of many of the worlds great religion, from Buddhism, to Hinduism,etc... So you don’t get to lay exclusive claim to that either.

I’m a gentile. I’m not a jew. I could care less about an exclusively Jewish messiah, dedicated to the political aspirations of the hand full of jews, bringing with him a political solution. I only care about the Truth, the savior of humanity, the one who conceives God in the suffering victim of the cross, who declares God is love, is the light of the human race.

Judaism may have never imagined of Christ, but Christ is far greater than anything they could have ever conceived. He is the word of God, the only being worthy of the title of savior. Your interpretations of the OT may all be right, but all that would mean is that they (the writers) were wrong about what is to come, not that your interpretation is incorrect.

You can continue to wait for another messiah, perhaps some military leader, a religious politician etc.. He will never be a messiah to me, and that’s the point. Just like no God will ever be a God to me, but Christ.

Quote:Jesus isn't the Jewish messiah. He does not, in any way other than by merely being a Jew, fit any of the descriptions of the Jewish messiah.

He is the messiah. He’s not the messiah of your expectation, and he’s not the messiah of the OT writers expectations either. He’s far more than that, one encompassing more than you or any of those writers could have imagined. One of significance for the whole world, and not some handful of jews.

Quote:But hey! He can be the Christian messiah, though. You guys can have him.

We’ll take him over anything you or anyone else will have to offer. He will speak more to us than anything else. I’m a child of the east, and when that axis of Christianity shifts from the west to us, we’d gladly embrace it with open arms.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-07-2017, 04:42 PM
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(24-07-2017 04:18 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:But hey! He can be the Christian messiah, though. You guys can have him.

We’ll take him over anything you or anyone else will have to offer. He will speak more to us than anything else. I’m a child of the east, and when that axis of Christianity shifts from the west to us, we’d gladly embrace it with open arms.


But no one literally needs or is looking for an actual messiah person. No one can do what you think he does for you. Got to put on the big boy undies, roll up your sleeves and save your own ass.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes whateverist's post
24-07-2017, 08:02 PM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2017 08:06 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Do Jews ever read the New Testament?
(23-07-2017 03:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 02:21 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I thought I would canvas this point after seeing a video where Israelis were asked in the street what they thought about Jesus.

Most of them replied that they knew he was the central figure in Christianity but didn't have any knowledge about him or what he taught.

Judaism has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. That being the case, Jews do not ever read the NT. Christianity is not seen as a sect of Judaism, it's not an authorized offshoot, and it's not regarded as a "sibling" religion. Jews do not see themselves as being connected to Christianity in any way.

If you want to understand Judaism, the first step would be to throw out everything you understand about Christianity and learn from Jews from the ground up.

(23-07-2017 02:21 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  "8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

Properly translated and taken in context to the historical events going on at the time (as recorded in Jewish texts), this verse says, "Hey Babylonains, if you want to sacrifice human babies to your deity, why don't you sacrifice your own babies instead of kidnapping and sacrificing ours?" It's not encouraging the Babylonians to commit infanticide, it's challenging them to view human sacrifice from a different perspective.


Yes, I agree, Judaism, as we now know it and as it is practiced today, has nothing to do with Christianity and Christianity is not a sect of Judaism.

I have, actually, no desire to learn about Judaism. I read Arthur Koestler's book, The Thirteenth Tribe and I've read DNA studies of Dr. Eran Elhaik so I'm familiar with the debate about national origin, etc.

I don't personally believe that the people who are called "Jews" in the Old Testament were "Jewish" as we term people today. I see the Old Testament as a collection of stories about the descendants of Abraham, who was a Chaldean Keltoi from Ur, which makes it about Assyrians/Sumerians. I find this amusing because it would mean that the Old Testament is actually a story about an Aryan tribe, like every other European national origin literary work.

The Psalm I quoted is quite clear. It's famous as having been made into the Boney M song "By the Rivers of Babylon". It talks of how the Jews were made captive and how Zion was razed to the ground and it says that they will take revenge on the Babylonians by killing their babies. You are putting a spin on it which isn't justified by the text itself.

It clearly says "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones..." The meaning could not be clearer.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Deltabravo's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: