Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
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17-05-2016, 06:28 AM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(17-05-2016 04:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 02:11 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Not sure what you mean by that.
My local doctor is in a building that includes a chemist(pharmacy) AND a dentist as well. If its an emergency, they look at me straight away, if its not an emergency then perhaps I wait 10-15 minutes while I read some magazines. No biggie.

And guess what? I don't have any medical insurance at all.


Out of curiosity, when it comes to your pay check, is there an area that indicates how much of your income goes toward funding healthcare? Or do you know that?

What would you say your tax rate is?

It is far less than your employer removes for your healthcare.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-05-2016, 07:27 AM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(17-05-2016 06:28 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 04:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Out of curiosity, when it comes to your pay check, is there an area that indicates how much of your income goes toward funding healthcare? Or do you know that?

What would you say your tax rate is?

It is far less than your employer removes for your healthcare.

I pay about $100 a month for coverage for both me and my wife, and get a variety of rebates on my gym member, FSA, etc..., and is a small fraction of my income.

Government run healthcare is unlikely to cost me less, in fact individuals such as myself would likely have to pay more, as has already occurred after the affordable care act.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2016, 07:49 AM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(17-05-2016 07:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 06:28 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is far less than your employer removes for your healthcare.

I pay about $100 a month for coverage for both me and my wife, and get a variety of rebates on my gym member, FSA, etc..., and is a small fraction of my income.

Government run healthcare is unlikely to cost me less, in fact individuals such as myself would likely have to pay more, as has already occurred after the affordable care act.

The ACA has nothing to do with single payer. It was a bandage on a gunshot wound. Single payer is cheaper, that's not up for debate it is a simple fact. The for profit health care model of the US is an abysmal failure that only benefits the insurance companies. You pay $100 how much does your employer cover? Wouldn't you rather pay the same $100 in taxes and get the employer contribution as salary?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-05-2016, 08:45 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2016 08:50 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(17-05-2016 07:49 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The ACA has nothing to do with single payer. It was a bandage on a gunshot wound. Single payer is cheaper, that's not up for debate it is a simple fact.

In terms of overall healthcare cost, sure, and particularly benefitting the uninsured extremely sick, and self-insured. But not in regards to what many employees with decent jobs, are paying currently.

Quote:The for profit health care model of the US is an abysmal failure that only benefits the insurance companies.

Which is a myth. The high cost of healthcare, is not because of profit margins of insurers, which contrary to proper belief isn't the direct result of your premium payments, which in and of themselves leave very little beyond covering operating expenses, and the cost of their risk pools. Insurance companies primarily make money by investing your premium payments. But dissolving the profit incentives of insurers would do next to nothing for the overall cost of healthcare.

It's the cost of care that drives our healthcare cost, the cost of meds, the cost providers charge for a variety of services, etc...... In our current systems these prices are reduced almost exclusively by the insurer creating large enough pools to negotiate lower prices.

Drug companies make considerable more money in the American market, than in countries with a single payor system, but this also means that a great deal of money they invest in R&D, to find the next breakthrough, are driven considerably by the amount America more so than other countries pay towards them. In a lot of ways Americans are subsidizing this aspect for the rest of the world.

Regardless, while I'm all far a single payor system, once someone can offer a model that's economically feasible, and aware of the variety of negative consequences, given a nation as large and devise as the American population. But it would be a lie to suggest that individuals such as myself would be paying less overall all for it, then I'm currently paying, where I'd be subsidizing more than quarter of a million people.

There's a reason why Bernie Sander's desire to emulate the Norway model, is deemed as economically disastrous by most economist, and it's not partisanship.

Quote:You pay $100 how much does your employer cover? Wouldn't you rather pay the same $100 in taxes and get the employer contribution as salary?

Sure I would, it just wouldn't happen, because there's no free lunch. What you'll primarily be doing is shifting those amount from a category designated as for healthcare cost, lumped into my portion of federal taxes instead. And will likely cost me as an employer more, than previously. There's not much of an economic incentive to support a single payor system, though there possibly is a moral one.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2016, 08:46 AM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(17-05-2016 04:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  What would you say your tax rate is?

About the same as it is for keeping the roads in good condition. Virtually nothing.

America differs from most affluent nations in that it is a place full of individuals who resent other individuals. Whereas most other nations show care for their populations.

But as I said earlier, it is virtually impossible to talk about such an unselfish idea with Americans.

BTW. Americans pay par more per capita for health than other affluent nations.

Take me for example. Were I American, the insurance company would have pulled the plug months ago.

Oh and your ideas aren't very xian Tomasia. Or are they? Wink

Sent in agony via da pc. Big Grin

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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17-05-2016, 08:49 AM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(17-05-2016 08:46 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 04:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  What would you say your tax rate is?

About the same as it is for keeping the roads in good condition. Virtually nothing.

America differs from most affluent nations in that it is a place full of individuals who resent other individuals. Whereas most other nations show care for their populations.

But as I said earlier, it is virtually impossible to talk about such an unselfish idea with Americans.

BTW. Americans pay par more per capita for health than other affluent nations.

Take me for example. Were I American, the insurance company would have pulled the plug months ago.

Oh and your ideas aren't very xian Tomasia. Or are they? Wink

Sent in agony via da pc. Big Grin

You can lead a conservative to a good idea but you can't make them think.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-05-2016, 08:54 AM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(17-05-2016 08:46 AM)Banjo Wrote:  .

Take me for example. Were I American, the insurance company would have pulled the plug months ago.

And that wouldn't happen, given your situation, you'll likely be receiving Medicare, and kept alive for as long as possible.

Not to mention the ACA prevents the very idea of pulling the plug.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2016, 08:57 AM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(17-05-2016 08:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 08:46 AM)Banjo Wrote:  .

Take me for example. Were I American, the insurance company would have pulled the plug months ago.

And that wouldn't happen, given your situation, you'll likely be receiving Medicare, and kept alive for as long as possible.

Not to mention the ACA prevents the very idea of pulling the plug.

Notice how he slides around to praising the ACA he was demonising just a few posts ago. It's always fun seeing American conservatives continue to deny reality by lying out of both sides of their mouths.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-05-2016, 08:57 AM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(17-05-2016 08:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 08:46 AM)Banjo Wrote:  .

Take me for example. Were I American, the insurance company would have pulled the plug months ago.

And that wouldn't happen, given your situation, you'll likely be receiving Medicare, and kept alive for as long as possible.

Yeah I doubt it. It costs 60.000 USD per month to keep me alive.

The only people who don't know the American system is barking mad, are Americans.

But this is off topic anyway. How'd it get here? I admit to being a bit confused. Big Grin

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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17-05-2016, 08:58 AM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(17-05-2016 08:57 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 08:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And that wouldn't happen, given your situation, you'll likely be receiving Medicare, and kept alive for as long as possible.

Not to mention the ACA prevents the very idea of pulling the plug.

Notice how he slides around to praising the ACA he was demonising just a few posts ago. It's always fun seeing American conservatives continue to deny reality by lying out of both sides of their mouths.

I support the ACA, and I'm a registered democrat, who likes Obama.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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