Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
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10-05-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
For the record, I probably wouldn't have jumped onto the 'murica bandwagon if it didn't have an active counterculture that is so easy to piss off.

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10-05-2016, 02:42 PM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(10-05-2016 01:57 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  
(10-05-2016 08:32 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  For me the biggest issue with Americans is fanatical patriotism. You guys are like fascists. Minus the dictatorship and genocide. And I'm not talking about a small minority group. I'm talking the majority of the population. "America is the greatest country in the world!" shit. You have some stupid pledge you make children say at school. You think you're the only country to have a constitution when nearly every country in the world has one. Every western country has the same or more rights than you guys. "We have freedom!" is meaningless. So do I. So does most of Europe, Canada, Australia etc.. The only thing great about America is your military firepower, but hows that been working out for you lately? The only reason you have a large military power is so you can bully countries into doing what you wanna do.
I think this is where Americans differ from the rest of the west. I think Europeans, Kiwi's, Aussies and Canadians love their countries, but they're not fanatical patriots about it. We accept our faults. We can see other countries doing things better and learn from that. You put your fingers in your ears and scream lalala and ignore them all the while screaming "America is the greatest country in the world!!".

That's a mentality that irks the shit out of me too, but in large part it's an exaggerated and ugly stereotype. You may be surprised to find out how few American's actually feel that way though. We have a long history of protest, political dissent, and unrest in this country, but I fear this sentiment is in a real downturn. There has always been an undercurrent and counter-culture in the USA which opposes the status quo - though I admit that opposition has been less vocal and prominent in recent years. These voices are not likely to be the ones you can hear all the way from New Zealand.

This forum is where I find the counter-culture. Having watched a few clips of fox news I can't figure out how the hell you guys aren't frothing at the mouth patriots yourselves. That shit is toxic. And yeah, it's kinda the stereotype that we see a lot of overseas. The American Imperialists. Bringing the Good News to the Befucked Heathens. Who weren't quite so befucked before you arrived. Look, it's a lot more complex than that but that stereotype is *easy* to find confirmation for.

ETA: Above in relation to stereotype of nation as a whole. In general in SA AFAIK most Americans who make it here are viewed very positively. They tend to be earnest young nubile missionary types Big Grin

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-05-2016, 02:56 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2016 03:14 PM by Free Thought.)
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(09-05-2016 07:43 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I seem to frequently run into articles explaining why Europeans or occasionally other Westernized countries (Australia, NZ, South Afrika, Canada, etc) hate America/Americans,%2

Edit: My post got fucked up and I'm slightly too drunk and tired to fix it so TL;DR version: Whites hate America? True or false? My experience has been good with people from all over (minus middle-easterners who what me dead). America likes to rag on Frenchies, but we don't hate them. Is it true? You hate me for being American or is the talk just talk?

I don't know much about any other Western nation, but as an Australian, it is my cultural duty to try to take the piss out of anything and everything.

I don't know anybody personally who hates the US or the residents thereof, however there are plenty who think of the nation as a perfect example of a fuck-up collective. To them watching the news of the US devolving into batshit is funny; the high and mighty 'murica, for all its pride and mindless patriotism, is being laid low by its own stupidity.
Australians generally enjoy seeing the obnoxious and entitled cut down to size.

I personally love the US. Because I know that for all the myriad shit that is wrong with Australia, at least we aren't as bad as the yanks.

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10-05-2016, 03:18 PM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(10-05-2016 11:58 AM)SYZ Wrote:  These are the only "Americans" I hate.....
Am I missing something?
You hate Americans who are proud Muslims and willing to hold a sign saying that they are Muslim Americans?



How do you feel about Americans who are proud Christians and willing to hold a sign saying that they are Christian Americans?
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10-05-2016, 03:32 PM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
I'm an American and I am pretty sure I hate most Americans. However, I'm not sure I like any other group of people any better. So, whatevs...

To be clear, I use the term "hate" loosely. But, my feelings fall somewhere between how I felt about the salisbury steak served in my elementary school lunchroom and how I feel seeing anything Duck Dynasty related.

I just wanted to let you know that I love you even though you aren't naked right now. Heart
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10-05-2016, 03:59 PM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(10-05-2016 02:56 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(09-05-2016 07:43 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I seem to frequently run into articles explaining why Europeans or occasionally other Westernized countries (Australia, NZ, South Afrika, Canada, etc) hate America/Americans,%2

Edit: My post got fucked up and I'm slightly too drunk and tired to fix it so TL;DR version: Whites hate America? True or false? My experience has been good with people from all over (minus middle-easterners who what me dead). America likes to rag on Frenchies, but we don't hate them. Is it true? You hate me for being American or is the talk just talk?

I don't know much about any other Western nation, but as an Australian, it is my cultural duty to try to take the piss out of anything and everything.

I don't know anybody personally who hates the US or the residents thereof, however there are plenty who think of the nation as a perfect example of a fuck-up collective. To them watching the news of the US devolving into batshit is funny; the high and mighty 'murica, for all its pride and mindless patriotism, is being laid low by its own stupidity.
Australians generally enjoy seeing the obnoxious and entitled cut down to size.

I personally love the US. Because I know that for all the myriad shit that is wrong with Australia, at least we aren't as bad as the yanks.

Bolding mine. Someone has to set the bar. Tongue

I will say that by and large the people in the US are OK. The turnips seem to make up the majority of the news feeds, though.

Things like the current political scramble clown car sure is embarrassing, to say the least.
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10-05-2016, 04:20 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2016 04:25 PM by Shai Hulud.)
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(10-05-2016 01:29 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I would add that the American public education system is a disaster ("America is the greatest country in the world")

There's an excellent book called Lies My Teacher Told Me. To summarize it in one sentence: U.S. history textbooks are whitewashed propaganda.

For instance, from my own childhood, I highly doubt Stalin ever said "Thank God for America", but it was in a history textbook when discussing World War Two. Or for a more recent example; I did a round table with local high school teachers. I brought up that our students we were getting are incapable of writing...their response was that the local school board told them English is a reading class and to not teach children how to write, because it wasn't important... Facepalm

(10-05-2016 02:56 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I personally love the US. Because I know that for all the myriad shit that is wrong with Australia, at least we aren't as bad as the yanks.

Not to start a debate or be offensive, but there are people sewing their mouths shut in protest and children killing themselves in your nation's Nauru immigration detention center in Papua New Guinea that would possibly disagree... (Though we may catch up, I believe it was either Geo Group or Corrections Corporation of America that just got a massive federal contract involving immigration on the southern border and are salivating at the chance to fill their private prisons with migrant detainees.)

Need to think of a witty signature.
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10-05-2016, 04:24 PM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(10-05-2016 03:18 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(10-05-2016 11:58 AM)SYZ Wrote:  These are the only "Americans" I hate.....
Am I missing something?
You hate Americans who are proud Muslims and willing to hold a sign saying that they are Muslim Americans?



How do you feel about Americans who are proud Christians and willing to hold a sign saying that they are Christian Americans?

I was wondering about that myself. I'd like to know the context of that picture -- why are these people holding these signs? To what are they responding? And what is the reason for hating them? In general, I see nothing wrong with being Muslim-American, or being proud of it.
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10-05-2016, 04:28 PM
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
In China, I think there is much resistance to be associated with the West.
For example, they cling to Traditional Chinese Medicine because they see science based medicine as being "Western" medicine.

They had, for decades avoided much international trade because they saw that as Capitalism. They have many things that they see as intrinsic to their national identity and try very hard to distance themselves from the West.
Perhaps scared that they loose their culture and heritage by becoming an homogonous country operating on the world scene.

I think that is the issue with many Muslim Arabs as well. The fear that their culture and identity die out if they accept "western" practices.

BUT also I think America falls for this too.
Many appear to still be scared of America turning towards "Communist" practices.

In NZ we never worry about whether a policy is "Capitalism" or "Communism". We just assess what is best for the country and go with that. I get a feeling that Aus, Canada, England and probably Scandanavia are the same (not concerned).
Our identity isn't based on religion, or political stances, Kiwis are self-percieved as practical, explorers, having ingenuity, sporty, casual, world aware, diverse etc.

Now of course not all kiwis are that way, and perhaps the perception others have of us is different. But what I am getting at is that I think this fight between "Capitalism" vs "Communism" might be a limiter to the American potential, just as it is limiting the Chinese and the Arabs.
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10-05-2016, 04:45 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2016 06:17 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: Do Other Westerners Really Hate Americans?
(10-05-2016 08:32 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(10-05-2016 04:46 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  All of that is true, except free healthcare and the environment. The only time you get something for "free" is when you are really buying it, or they want you to buy something else much more expensive. As for our environment, it's excellent in the overwhelming part of the country. Our worst patch of land is probably LA, which is a pretty tiny percentage of the country, and even that can't compete with the likes of many cities across the world for polluted air.

Not environment as in environment, safe environment as in safe neighborhood.
Less violence. I agree that environmentally America is pretty good. Even with all the global warming deniers.

Our healthcare is FAR FAR better system than what you guys have.
I get that we pay for it through our taxes but NZ taxes are on par with US taxes except you also have to pay for health insurance on top of that. So it's not more expensive.. more expensive for you maybe.

If I break my arm I go to the hospital. I get fixed up. I go to the follow up appointments. And all I have to do is give the hospital some details (name, address, DoB etc..) for the purpose to record keeping. They don't send me a bill. I don't have to go through an insurance company that doesn't wanna give me money and asks a thousand questions which give off the impression they don't believe me.
And that goes for everyone. Rich or homeless. You're covered. No poor people who unable to afford health insurance being screwed over by an accident.


For me the biggest issue with Americans is fanatical patriotism. You guys are like fascists. Minus the dictatorship and genocide. And I'm not talking about a small minority group. I'm talking the majority of the population. "America is the greatest country in the world!" shit. You have some stupid pledge you make children say at school. You think you're the only country to have a constitution when nearly every country in the world has one. Every western country has the same or more rights than you guys. "We have freedom!" is meaningless. So do I. So does most of Europe, Canada, Australia etc.. The only thing great about America is your military firepower, but hows that been working out for you lately? The only reason you have a large military power is so you can bully countries into doing what you wanna do.
I think this is where Americans differ from the rest of the west. I think Europeans, Kiwi's, Aussies and Canadians love their countries, but they're not fanatical patriots about it. We accept our faults. We can see other countries doing things better and learn from that. You put your fingers in your ears and scream lalala and ignore them all the while screaming "America is the greatest country in the world!!".

Big Grin Most of the stuff you replied to aren't things that I've said, or think Big Grin

I know our healthcare system is fucked, and we're not as safe as NZ, or most European countries. On the healthcare thing, we do need some SERIOUS reform, and Obamacare ain't it. I believe it's actually worse now than it was before, and it really fucking sucked before.

Safety is something that we could improve on as well, but I don't necessarily think safety is the most important thing either. A lot of Americans would agree that freedom is more important than safety. You have to find the right balance. That being said there is no reason why we should not be in the top 25 or so. Right now we are barely in the top 100. Angry

Regardless, I don't think anyone hates America because it isn't safe or because we have shitty healthcare. I could be wrong here. Let's take a look at NZ. Most people don't have beef with NZ. I think most people would even look at it favorably. When I think of NZ I don't say "Man, I really like NZ. Now that is a safe country with good healthcare!". I would think of the weather, the beauty of the country, the relatively decent economy, and Lord of the Rings. I mean, you're forever linked with LoTR whether you like it or not.




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