Do You Ever Pray?
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24-09-2012, 05:16 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2012 05:20 PM by Atothetheist.)
RE: Do You Ever Pray?
(24-09-2012 05:11 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Question to all the agnostic atheists out there;

If you were in a hypothetical situation where the person on this planet you care about the most (be it sibling, friend, spouse, parent, or child) was in mortal danger and you were told that you could either do absolutely nothing, or you could do something that only had a 0.000000000000000001% chance of having any effect whatsoever, which would you choose?

I wouldn't pray, because I have spent my whole life renouncing the beings I would be crawling back to? It's not a 0.000000000000000001%... It's a: 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%. So, why even bother? Why even beg to somebody who you don't even know exists, or don't believe in now? Why do you think that god will look at you in favor and even give you the percentage?

If there was absolutely NOTHING I could do, or pray... I would choose the former, because either outcome is going to have almost zero effect on the person's outcome. Prayer would only make the person praying feel better, and that is not really helpful for the other person.

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24-09-2012, 05:19 PM
Do You Ever Pray?
(24-09-2012 05:11 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Question to all the agnostic atheists out there;

If you were in a hypothetical situation where the person on this planet you care about the most (be it sibling, friend, spouse, parent, or child) was in mortal danger and you were told that you could either do absolutely nothing, or you could do something that only had a 0.000000000000000001% chance of having any beneficial effect whatsoever but wouldn't do any harm, which would you choose?

I only go to the third decimal place and since that's zero, I probably wouldn't. But I might wish that I could.

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24-09-2012, 05:21 PM
RE: Do You Ever Pray?
Not in half a decade.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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24-09-2012, 05:23 PM
RE: Do You Ever Pray?
(24-09-2012 05:16 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I've spent my whole life renouncing the beings I would be crawling back to? It's not a 0.000000000000000001%... It's a: 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%. So, why even bother? Why even beg to somebody who you don't even exist, or don't believe in now? Why do you think that god will look at you in favor and even give you the and percentage?

If there was absolutely NOTHING I could do, or pray... I would choose the former, because either outcome is going to have almost zero effect on the person's outcome. Prayer would only make the person praying feel better, and that is not really helpful for the other person.

If I can do absolutely nothing or do something where there's a 99.99999999999999999999% chance of making no difference and a 0.000000000000000000001% chance of making a difference I'll choose the latter every time. It's the only logical choice for me.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-09-2012, 05:28 PM
RE: Do You Ever Pray?
(24-09-2012 05:23 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 05:16 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I've spent my whole life renouncing the beings I would be crawling back to? It's not a 0.000000000000000001%... It's a: 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%. So, why even bother? Why even beg to somebody who you don't even exist, or don't believe in now? Why do you think that god will look at you in favor and even give you the and percentage?

If there was absolutely NOTHING I could do, or pray... I would choose the former, because either outcome is going to have almost zero effect on the person's outcome. Prayer would only make the person praying feel better, and that is not really helpful for the other person.

If I can do absolutely nothing or do something where there's a 99.99999999999999999999% chance of making no difference and a 0.000000000000000000001% chance of making a difference I'll choose the latter every time. It's the only logical choice for me.
Sorry, but I don't see the difference anymore with all those numbers... It's practically zero anyways, why hold out for a miracle when you know that you don't deserve one. The people who were born into situations that were beyond their control and constantly suffer for it need a miracle, yet no matter how much they pray, they don't get one... Your percentage of the prayer working is waaaaayyyyy to optimistic for prayer.

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24-09-2012, 05:36 PM
RE: Do You Ever Pray?
I don't pray, but I often hope. I hope for things to work out. I hope that loved ones are well. All kinds of stuff to hope for. For me though, that's just internal dialogue. Praying would be addressing it to someone, with an expectation that it could affect the outcome. I have no such expectation.

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24-09-2012, 05:39 PM
RE: Do You Ever Pray?
(24-09-2012 05:36 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I don't pray, but I often hope. I hope for things to work out. I hope that loved ones are well. All kinds of stuff to hope for. For me though, that's just internal dialogue. Praying would be addressing it to someone, with an expectation that it could affect the outcome. I have no such expectation.

I think mine is similar, it's internal dialogue. It's not aimed at any particular being, just absolutely anything that may be able to hear it whether it be a deity, spirit, ancestor, or alien.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-09-2012, 05:46 PM
RE: Do You Ever Pray?
I do, but I don't think it's fair to call it praying. It's more like threatening.

I don't believe in the likely-hood of a supreme being, but like you I can't entirely rule out anything 100%. However one thing I can be certain about is that there is no supreme being I can imagine that would be worth worship. Within the confines of the religion I understand I have found myself threatening "god" with a future of eternal face smashings in certain possible situations.

My family has a history of Cancer. Lots of it, among other horrid physical defects (really genetically speaking we should eradicate ourselves for the betterment of the species) and I have a wonderfully insane daughter whom I love very much. This drives me to appeal to my less rational side in the hopes of covering all potential basis to some small degree.

For example I have said that if I die while my daughter is still young, "god" had better make sure my kid grows up happy and safe or I'll straight up join with satan and overthrow his ass. (obviously not likely in any sense of the word)

Also I have this thing where I say that if wishes are possible I only have one. For my daughter to grow up happy and healthy and have a good life. Therefor whenever there is an opportunity for wish making, such as an eyelash or a coin etc. I always make the same wish. Just in case. I don't believe in wishes, but what if they were true and I wasted it on a fucking ice cream cone on a hot day.

My brain will almost never accept absolutes and I often have to make mental concessions with myself because I'm fucked up or something.

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24-09-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: Do You Ever Pray?
(24-09-2012 05:46 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I do, but I don't think it's fair to call it praying. It's more like threatening.

I don't believe in the likely-hood of a supreme being, but like you I can't entirely rule out anything 100%. However one thing I can be certain about is that there is no supreme being I can imagine that would be worth worship. Within the confines of the religion I understand I have found myself threatening "god" with a future of eternal face smashings in certain possible situations.

My family has a history of Cancer. Lots of it, among other horrid physical defects (really genetically speaking we should eradicate ourselves for the betterment of the species) and I have a wonderfully insane daughter whom I love very much. This drives me to appeal to my less rational side in the hopes of covering all potential basis to some small degree.

For example I have said that if I die while my daughter is still young, "god" had better make sure my kid grows up happy and safe or I'll straight up join with satan and overthrow his ass. (obviously not likely in any sense of the word)

Also I have this thing where I say that if wishes are possible I only have one. For my daughter to grow up happy and healthy and have a good life. Therefor whenever there is an opportunity for wish making, such as an eyelash or a coin etc. I always make the same wish. Just in case. I don't believe in wishes, but what if they were true and I wasted it on a fucking ice cream cone on a hot day.

My brain will almost never accept absolutes and I often have to make mental concessions with myself because I'm fucked up or something.

I totally get where you're coming from.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-09-2012, 06:16 PM
RE: Do You Ever Pray?
I'm sorta with Stark on this one.

I put my thoughts out to the universe (there are so many energies within the universe that we don't understand and thoughts are one of them) just hoping that maybe it could help in some way. I'm not optimistic but it certainly can't hurt. So I suppose it's like 'hoping'.

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