Do You Support the Death Penalty?
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09-10-2017, 11:12 AM
RE: Do You Support the Death Penalty?
(09-10-2017 10:06 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Shai, [whilst I can't talk for all denominations of the church] would I be right in saying most churches preach forgiveness for those on death row? IE yes you might be pissed of, but "turn the other cheek" as it were?

I don't think I can speak for them all, but a large proportion I think do. A mixture of turning the cheek and 'if we say life is sacred and we believe in Thou Shalt Not Murder...'. Since the death penalty is essentially a state sanctioned/mandated homicide.

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09-10-2017, 11:13 AM
RE: Do You Support the Death Penalty?
(08-10-2017 09:11 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(08-10-2017 06:46 PM)julep Wrote:  No. Too many people have been wrongfully executed, and also I feel it's too much of a moral compromise. Plus there's no evidence that it has a deterrent effect.

Same thinking here. And it's a rather permanent mistake to make. A wrongly convicted person can be released from prison if it is later discovered that their conviction was in error. They may not get their lost time back, but they can at least regain their freedom.

We can never make a fail-proof system for administering the death penalty. In order to minimize mistakes, we allow for a large number of appeals which tends to make death penalty cases significantly more expensive than housing them in prison.
I've noticed a lot of people bringing up the cost here. Why is the whole death penalty thing so expensive? Just curious.
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09-10-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: Do You Support the Death Penalty?
(09-10-2017 11:13 AM)goldenarm Wrote:  
(08-10-2017 09:11 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Same thinking here. And it's a rather permanent mistake to make. A wrongly convicted person can be released from prison if it is later discovered that their conviction was in error. They may not get their lost time back, but they can at least regain their freedom.

We can never make a fail-proof system for administering the death penalty. In order to minimize mistakes, we allow for a large number of appeals which tends to make death penalty cases significantly more expensive than housing them in prison.
I've noticed a lot of people bringing up the cost here. Why is the whole death penalty thing so expensive? Just curious.

Repeated appeals are part of the costs I suppose.

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09-10-2017, 01:23 PM
RE: Do You Support the Death Penalty?
(09-10-2017 11:16 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 11:13 AM)goldenarm Wrote:  I've noticed a lot of people bringing up the cost here. Why is the whole death penalty thing so expensive? Just curious.

Repeated appeals are part of the costs I suppose.

That, and the whole freaking ceremony is just ridiculous. We have pills we give to people under the death with dignity acts, why can't they just use that? Ridiculous and cruel.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-10-2017, 01:46 PM
RE: Do You Support the Death Penalty?
(09-10-2017 11:13 AM)goldenarm Wrote:  I've noticed a lot of people bringing up the cost here. Why is the whole death penalty thing so expensive? Just curious.

The whole process of going through the legal motions, which can go over the span of two decades with lawyer and court fees at every step of the way.

I'm against the DP by the way, not because of costs but because of the margin of error. You can correct a life sentence but you can't bring someone back from the grave if it turns out the court was in error.

Also, it's state sanctioned homicide. All arguments in it's favor have been debunked. It's no deterrent and it's more expensive. All that's left is revenge and I don't think the state should order revenge killings. The state's only obligation is to keep it's citizens save and a life sentence serves the same purpose. The person is off the streets and can't do no further harm.

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09-10-2017, 01:57 PM
RE: Do You Support the Death Penalty?
(09-10-2017 11:07 AM)goldenarm Wrote:  That's pretty interesting I have to say, but 18 years? Maybe this is irrational, but that scares me a little bit. Do you recommend a source that I could check out on Sweden's policies?

Here is a translation of the Swedish penal code and here is an abridged Wiki version for crimes of life or death. Eighteen years is reserved for extremely violent crimes, such as murder. Their prisons do not have armed guards and are designed to correct inmates, as opposed to exclusively punishing them. In addition, there are political debates held in the prisons during elections, where they are then allowed to vote.

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09-10-2017, 06:08 PM
RE: Do You Support the Death Penalty?
(09-10-2017 11:13 AM)goldenarm Wrote:  
(08-10-2017 09:11 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Same thinking here. And it's a rather permanent mistake to make. A wrongly convicted person can be released from prison if it is later discovered that their conviction was in error. They may not get their lost time back, but they can at least regain their freedom.

We can never make a fail-proof system for administering the death penalty. In order to minimize mistakes, we allow for a large number of appeals which tends to make death penalty cases significantly more expensive than housing them in prison.
I've noticed a lot of people bringing up the cost here. Why is the whole death penalty thing so expensive? Just curious.

We try to give additional due process to those convicted in a death penalty case. This is done to give additional benefit of the doubt to the convicted individual as a means of avoiding mistakes. But this of course does not guarantee 100% that the right verdict was obtained. But the appeals process in the US justice system has more to do with errors in process rather than errors in facts. It can be an uphill battle to clear someone once a jury convicts, even if there is new evidence that may have resulted in an acquittal. The standard used to order a new trial is something to the effect of "a reasonable jury could not convict" with new evidence, not "might not convict". So repeated attempts are often made to bring new evidence that might tend to clear or exonerate the individual facing the death penalty.
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09-10-2017, 08:30 PM
RE: Do You Support the Death Penalty?
(08-10-2017 06:16 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  Why or why not?

As administered by the State, no.

It's been used as an instrument of repression, largely against minority populations.

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09-10-2017, 11:41 PM
RE: Do You Support the Death Penalty?
(09-10-2017 02:03 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  While you can't guarantee 100% that the death penalty is used only on the guilty - you can't guarantee 100% that an evil murderous bastard isn't going to kill again. Unless you kill them.

In Australia, there's a 40% recidivism rate amongst criminals incarcerated for crimes of violence (51% of prison population). Within 18 months, they're convicted and returned to prison as a result of further crimes. That figure includes 32% of prisoners convicted of murder, and 26% convicted of rape.
Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) 25 February 2016

In January this year, here in Melbourne, we had the case of 26-year-old Dimitrious Gargasoulas who killed six people—including a three-month-old baby—and injured 30 others in a CBD shopping precinct rampage, by driving his vehicle through the open pedestrian mall. There were more than 100 eyewitness accounts confirming his identity, and the police also confirmed he was on bail for previous crimes of violence and drug offences.

This is the arsehole...

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And yes; he's a Muslim. What a surprise—although admittedly it was not a terrorist act.

Considering that there's absolutely no doubt at all that Gargasoulas killed those people, plus the fact that it currently costs the taxpayer $100K per annum to keep a prisoner in jail, would anybody disagreeing with the death penalty change their opinion for a confirmed multiple killer like this?

In this case at least, I'd say absolutely yes, the death penalty is warranted.

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09-10-2017, 11:52 PM
RE: Do You Support the Death Penalty?
(08-10-2017 06:37 PM)Dom Wrote:  I think there should be a choice - death or life without parole.

I agree with this. Personally, I'd choose death. I think forcing someone to live out their days in jail is a very cruel punishment.

I used to be pro death sentence, but I'm now leaning towards anti. I found I hadn't properly thought it through until I discussed it with some people in a previous forum. Whether someone deserves to die is not the issue to me, it's about what is ethical, coupled with society's best interest. The only grounds for killing, I now feel, is in a situation where someone else's life is at risk.

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