Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
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22-07-2015, 10:03 AM
RE: Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
(22-07-2015 09:14 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Add Julianne Moore to that list. Pretty lady.

Well, my daughter is a transgender atheist. She's not famous though.

Several family members of my husband's southern family blame our atheist views for our daughter being transgender. I just laugh and laugh..... Laugh out load Big Grin


and then I laugh some more.....

Laugh out load Wink Laugh out load

Yes, Julianne Moore. Mmmm.

I guess we just need to make your daughter more famous! Big Grin

Every time my Southern family starts to express a collective opinion about issues like that, including my atheism, I have the same reaction: "Dude, what the fuck is wrong with southern people?" Rolleyes




"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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22-07-2015, 10:10 PM
RE: Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
I don't think actors and comedians can get it done. They are easily dismissed by the Christian majority as "just entertainers". You have to think of the type of minds you're talking about here and that the overwhelming majority of America identifies as Christian, and the near immediate reaction is anger.

It's not as simple to them as someone denying their sexuality or the supposed normalcy of it, but that person would be denying their creator and the fate of their eternal soul (from a religious perspective).

Things will remain until we become equal or greater in number and even then there will be a fight.
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23-07-2015, 08:41 AM
RE: Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
(22-07-2015 08:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 07:16 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  The atheist equivalent would have to be someone who, whether clergy or not, was seen to embody the "values" that religious people embrace, but who had a crisis of faith and came out of it as a free-thinker.

Isn't that Dan Barker story? Ryan Bell's story? John W. Loftus's story? There's seem to a variety of others who already fit the bill. Though I don't think any of them yielded the sort of results you wanted.

None of those people are were household names prior to their "transformations" like Jenner was.
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23-07-2015, 08:51 AM
RE: Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
I think, once he's done with his life of public service, President Obama should just drop the charade and come out as atheist.
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23-07-2015, 09:08 AM
RE: Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
The right would say out-atheist Obama is just pretending as cover for his Islamic faith. But many people are able to hold a religious belief despite intelligence and a generally reasonable outlook on things. I'm happy to take him at his word and I'm not sure him coming out as an atheist would help the cause.

We might need someone more like Oprah: Someone widely held in high esteem and somewhat trendy who no one would have suspected.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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23-07-2015, 01:29 PM
RE: Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
Especially after Oprah's interview with the atheist swimmer. Anyone who says you must believe in god if you have awe and wonder who would then come out as atheist has my vote. She could have the God Delusion as her Oprah's Book Club selection!

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23-07-2015, 01:39 PM
RE: Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
(21-07-2015 11:14 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Tonight I saw a friend who had a debate on Facebook with one of our mutual friends about Caitlyn Jenner. She had shared a post about the serviceman who defended Jenner getting the Arthur Ashe ESPY and she agreed with him. Our mutual friend found it hard to accept calling Jenner a hero, saying he reserved that term for "real" heroes like servicemen, et al.

When I saw her tonight, I told her I agreed with her that Caitlyn most certainly is a hero to a whole community and that the definition of a hero shouldn't be so narrow as to only include people who put their lives on the line. A passerby stopped and heard us chatting and said she thought it sucked that it had to take someone like Jenner to "legitimize" the trans community, to make it acceptable. What she meant by that was, she felt people should have always accepted trans people. My friend said that's just the way society is, mentioning that black people were once considered lesser humans. I mentioned that gay people have faced the same prejudices and are only now really being recognized for the fine people they are.

It got me to thinking: Would atheists benefit from a Caitlyn Jenner? In other words, if an A-lister who was an atheist could garner the same attention and accolades as Caitlyn, would the nonbeliever community receive the same boost in acceptance? I realize there are quite a few A-list celebs who are nonbelievers, but very few step up and push the acceptance. Their involvement usually just means a quote in some magazine or meme on FB. But if someone like Brad Pitt led a national atheist organization, what could it mean?

2 points.

1) Who says she's not risking her life? She's getting death threats, and look at the nature of some of her countrymen. Especially in the South. We don't have to speculate whether this is a subset of the population capable of producing lone-gun assassins fueled by fanatical bigotry. That question has unfortunately been quite thoroughly answered.

2) We've got Harry Potter doing just that. I don't think that's what we're missing.
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23-07-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
(23-07-2015 01:39 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 11:14 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Tonight I saw a friend who had a debate on Facebook with one of our mutual friends about Caitlyn Jenner. She had shared a post about the serviceman who defended Jenner getting the Arthur Ashe ESPY and she agreed with him. Our mutual friend found it hard to accept calling Jenner a hero, saying he reserved that term for "real" heroes like servicemen, et al.

When I saw her tonight, I told her I agreed with her that Caitlyn most certainly is a hero to a whole community and that the definition of a hero shouldn't be so narrow as to only include people who put their lives on the line. A passerby stopped and heard us chatting and said she thought it sucked that it had to take someone like Jenner to "legitimize" the trans community, to make it acceptable. What she meant by that was, she felt people should have always accepted trans people. My friend said that's just the way society is, mentioning that black people were once considered lesser humans. I mentioned that gay people have faced the same prejudices and are only now really being recognized for the fine people they are.

It got me to thinking: Would atheists benefit from a Caitlyn Jenner? In other words, if an A-lister who was an atheist could garner the same attention and accolades as Caitlyn, would the nonbeliever community receive the same boost in acceptance? I realize there are quite a few A-list celebs who are nonbelievers, but very few step up and push the acceptance. Their involvement usually just means a quote in some magazine or meme on FB. But if someone like Brad Pitt led a national atheist organization, what could it mean?

2 points.

1) Who says she's not risking her life? She's getting death threats, and look at the nature of some of her countrymen. Especially in the South. We don't have to speculate whether this is a subset of the population capable of producing lone-gun assassins fueled by fanatical bigotry. That question has unfortunately been quite thoroughly answered.

2) We've got Harry Potter doing just that. I don't think that's what we're missing.

I'll give you a half-point each for one full point. Getting death threats from cowards on the Internet or using the USPS is much different than a Taliban asshole with a machine gun. As for Harry Potter, again, I'm seeing random quotes pulled for memes from periodic interviews, but it's not someone who is considered Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Hindu who is also extremely popular in the spotlight then coming out as an atheist and getting a worldwide platform to chat about it.

For instance, Harry Potter's girlfriend Emma Watson made global news with her speech at the UN and for pushing the #heforshe movement. She has made some serious headway. Imagine if her speech was about atheism and she became the spokesperson for FFRF or whatever. It could do wonders for the youngsters out there afraid to come out, etc.

Just a thought.

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23-07-2015, 02:57 PM
RE: Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
I keep trying to think of an atheist equivalent to Caitlyn Jenner that would work. Movie stars wouldn't do much for the atheists. Several are atheists already and many people think actors are a little screwy to begin with.

This has been on my mind for a while so here is my potential list of "if he/she came out as an atheist" it would make huge different .


Queen Elizabeth

Prince William and Kate what's her name (they'd have to do it together 'cause they're married)

Tom Brokaw

Michael Jordan

Dr Phil

Any future female Olympic gold medal figure skating champions from the US would do.
(Can you imagine how she'd be booed. Instead of cute stuffed panda bears people would throw bibles and crosses on the ice.)

Mickey Mouse




That's my list so far.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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23-07-2015, 03:13 PM
RE: Do atheists need a Caitlyn?
(23-07-2015 02:57 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I keep trying to think of an atheist equivalent to Caitlyn Jenner that would work. Movie stars wouldn't do much for the atheists. Several are atheists already and many people think actors are a little screwy to begin with.

This has been on my mind for a while so here is my potential list of "if he/she came out as an atheist" it would make huge different .


Queen Elizabeth

Prince William and Kate what's her name (they'd have to do it together 'cause they're married)

Tom Brokaw

Michael Jordan

Dr Phil

Any future female Olympic gold medal figure skating champions from the US would do.
(Can you imagine how she'd be booed. Instead of cute stuffed panda bears people would throw bibles and crosses on the ice.)

Mickey Mouse




That's my list so far.

Dr. Phil is a religious nut, we'll see the pope come out as atheist before we see Dr. Phil.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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