Do atheists not favor firearms?
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24-10-2012, 07:15 PM
RE: Do atheists not favor firearms?
(23-10-2012 12:41 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  
(22-10-2012 08:51 PM)Anjele Wrote:  As for the original concept...atheism really has nothing to do with like or dislike of guns. I fail to see how there can be a connection.

I like to think of atheists as rational people who use evidence to come to conclusions. I have yet to find a anti-gun politician who uses objective studies to try to enact effective gun control laws.

You can tell by the way people talk that they have a irrational misunderstanding of firearms. Ever heard someone say"and then the gun went off". Just like, you know, when you're driving and the car just crashes itself?

Look at the 2nd debate, when obama said he wanted to ban "ak47 assault rifles". Well by that description, full auto and select fire firearms have been regulated since the NFA laws of 1934, and are extremly hard to obtain even for the most squeeky clean citizen, and also 20x the price bc of the law. Since 1934, there have only been 2 crimes comitted with legally owned class 3 firearms, and one of those was buy a cop in ohio. See how that is a non issue? But because most people have no clue about what a assault rifle actually is or that they are already highly regulated, and statistically are less of a problem then pencils.

There is a difference from just atheists and rationalists. There is nothing that should make atheists rational in a consensus. I do think there are more rational secularists here than some other forum groups I've seen. That's the issue that disgusts me that I noticed when I saw the opening post here; that you were listening to the national atheist party which is a ridiculous organization. To judge anything off of that is faulty because that organization is acting as if you can put atheists in a political bubble... and that the bubble is most atheists agree with them because their group of members vote said way.

Well I think you can be more affirmed here and by other atheists podcasts that it's not such a one sided affair.

However, Obama never said anything about wanting to ban guns. He did say he wanted to try to renew the Federal Assault Riffle Ban Clinton passed which isn't a ban on the guns. It's just called that but bans the creation and sale of new made rifles to citizens and bans as they call, the large ammo clips.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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24-10-2012, 11:35 PM
RE: Do atheists not favor firearms?
The "Assault Weapon" (not Assault Rifle...) ban is exactly the type of lame-brain, ineffectual, nonsense, stupid legislation I talked about earlier that didn't have any measurable effect on gun crime in America, that bans guns based on "scary" features rather than on any sensible rationale.


An assault rifle is a medium-calibre carbine-length rifle with a full auto or burst fire mode. Guess what? Those are already heavily regulated to the point of being inaccessible to 99% of the public. National Firearms Act, 1937. Look it up. That's a sensible regulation. Don't let just anyone have a full auto gun. Reasonable. There's also the 1968 update, which gets a bit more restrictive, bans some things I could argue on, but on the whole is not too bad. The Clinton Ban? Idiotic feel-good political pandering nonsense.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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25-10-2012, 12:06 AM
RE: Do atheists not favor firearms?
(24-10-2012 11:35 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  The "Assault Weapon" (not Assault Rifle...) ban is exactly the type of lame-brain, ineffectual, nonsense, stupid legislation I talked about earlier that didn't have any measurable effect on gun crime in America, that bans guns based on "scary" features rather than on any sensible rationale.


An assault rifle is a medium-calibre carbine-length rifle with a full auto or burst fire mode. Guess what? Those are already heavily regulated to the point of being inaccessible to 99% of the public. National Firearms Act, 1937. Look it up. That's a sensible regulation. Don't let just anyone have a full auto gun. Reasonable. There's also the 1968 update, which gets a bit more restrictive, bans some things I could argue on, but on the whole is not too bad. The Clinton Ban? Idiotic feel-good political pandering nonsense.

I know the general figures of how those laws were enacted. All the 1994 Clinton passed bill was, was another addition just as in 1968 but it expired after 10 years. It's not fairly different but adding more regulations on product ion. That's all that's been talked about by the current administration though, nothing about actual motives to limit ones ability to get guns. There are still reports convinced that he is going to suddenly change and take away gun rights.

No basic gun law is going to affect gun crime and most people already get that idea. That's why nothing has changed about that.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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25-10-2012, 01:04 AM
RE: Do atheists not favor firearms?
Regarding the OP -- Canadian, and as noted in another topic, highly pro-gun. Which can be a bit odd, given how left I am otherwise, even for a Canuck. I was shooting by the time I was 5, by 6 I was cleaning house competition wise. Then the idiocy that was the Long Gun Registry hit Canada; and all that fell by the wayside. Now that such is dead (for now....) Ive gotten heavily back into collecting and shooting. Also, where I live it's something of a necessity. (see the other topic for why).

To the OP and others - How many of yas recognize the name Tula? Wink
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25-10-2012, 01:45 AM
RE: Do atheists not favor firearms?
(25-10-2012 01:04 AM)AlexInYT Wrote:  Regarding the OP -- Canadian, and as noted in another topic, highly pro-gun. Which can be a bit odd, given how left I am otherwise, even for a Canuck. I was shooting by the time I was 5, by 6 I was cleaning house competition wise. Then the idiocy that was the Long Gun Registry hit Canada; and all that fell by the wayside. Now that such is dead (for now....) Ive gotten heavily back into collecting and shooting. Also, where I live it's something of a necessity. (see the other topic for why).

To the OP and others - How many of yas recognize the name Tula? Wink

This is a more accurate political spectrum, though still flawed IMO. Also, don't know Tula. Either way I am ideally an Anarchist, but I know that would be unrealistic so I am practically a libertarian.

[Image: the-true-political-spectrum.jpg]

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25-10-2012, 02:16 AM
RE: Do atheists not favor firearms?
(25-10-2012 01:04 AM)AlexInYT Wrote:  Regarding the OP -- Canadian, and as noted in another topic, highly pro-gun. Which can be a bit odd, given how left I am otherwise, even for a Canuck. I was shooting by the time I was 5, by 6 I was cleaning house competition wise. Then the idiocy that was the Long Gun Registry hit Canada; and all that fell by the wayside. Now that such is dead (for now....) Ive gotten heavily back into collecting and shooting. Also, where I live it's something of a necessity. (see the other topic for why).

To the OP and others - How many of yas recognize the name Tula? Wink

Tula, eh? So I'm guessing you're a fan of the Eastern Bloc weapons? AK family, the SKS, the Mosin, Makarov PM, and such-like? As well as the exclusive Tula arms like the VSS Vintorez and TOZ guns?

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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25-10-2012, 03:05 AM
RE: Do atheists not favor firearms?
What, are we talking about Tula the city? If so Russian (military) firearms are historically inferior to both American, and German weapons. They even used a captured arms factory to make "copies" of 98k in huge numbers in part because it was a superior weapon to what the Russians were using, the Nagant. I need to buy one of those by the way...the RC 98k and Nagant.

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25-10-2012, 06:55 PM
RE: Do atheists not favor firearms?
Tula, the Russian arms manufacture based in the city of the same name yes - and specifically the TOZ *Stamped TO3, interestingly* firearms. Their .22's are stone axe reliable and tack-driving accurate. They make some very fine arms, IMHO.
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25-10-2012, 08:59 PM
RE: Do atheists not favor firearms?
I loves me some guns.

I mean, think about it; if there's no God to save my ass in a sticky situation, why the fuck WOULDN'T I have a gun? (Or 12)

I can't rely on prayer, but I can sure as hell rely on 230 grains behind a .45 hollow-point.

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25-10-2012, 10:56 PM (This post was last modified: 26-10-2012 12:07 AM by Phaedrus.)
RE: Do atheists not favor firearms?
Huh, I'm sure the Tula TOZ-78 is a fine rifle. But I don't see what advantage it offers over a Ruger 10/22 for semi-auto, or a CZ 455 or Savage Mk. II for a bolt action? All these guns are reliable as hell and definitely tack drivers.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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