Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
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10-09-2013, 10:23 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2013 06:46 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
So then.
The purpose of the 13 pages of this thread was to tell us you redefined the word "fact" for yourself.
Isn't that special.
We'll keep a special little dictionary for you, in a special little place. And whenever you use your special little word "fact",
we'll know it has it's special little meaning. Just for you.
Cuz you're special.
Really really special.
Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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11-09-2013, 01:53 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(10-09-2013 06:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 01:16 PM)absols Wrote:  it is really incredible that strength of ur drive to deform consciously the obvious i say

no mister ur post is opposite to mine

truth exist not evolution, u do not evolve, even anything truly existing is always the same in truth

but truth is absolute objectivity so reality of absolute exponentials, since objective is an absolute necessarily

and like i said clearly, right and good humans were all killed which prove that evil is the exclusive power, and how all left are shit like u, that openly deform valuable posts for evil defense and show cheapest ways to step on rights in the wish of living by ruling on

fuck u piece of shit, ur english is worse then mine and especially ur face piece of living shit

and again i insist, there is no civilisation anymore in anyway, that was before when right humans were still existing

while it is obvious how u insist on civilsation to abuse others and call them lazy and weak, it is sc fictionnal the way truth is being anyone words maker

there are no more slaves to pretend u building anything, all left are like u ur same dirty kind so they want to rule upon u too and i think from what i see that they are way smarter so they will, while u did nothing ever but the knowledge of evil to apply with pleasure
them they learned from being true evil, at least they know their needs for living

You are an idiot. Of course homo sapiens evolved.

u shit, when did u get to do anything by urself alone
obviously not even a sentence while u clearly reject self free expressions ones for the shit u r always

fuck u and ur pretense of being evolved

thousands of years ago any self awareness was clearly individually intelligent not only at the intellectual level but also physically able to exist positively alone

u r nothing but shit if u cant realize anything by urself, when anything u copy or ur pick of else values is surely the opposite by u
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11-09-2013, 02:13 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(04-09-2013 02:28 PM)I and I Wrote:  What role does belief play into what we call facts?

Does belief trump facts if more people believe in something different than a fact?
I consider a belief to be a choice to close your mind off to plausible alternatives.
For example, lets say that there are two alternatives that humans developed from a common ancestor or that humans where created by a god.
One person might choose to believe that god did it thus closing off (in their mind) the alternative of evolution.
Let's say another person chooses to keep both alternatives alive, choosing to believe neither but instead to consider both.
This person then considers what the world should look like if a god created each species and what the world should look like if species developed as per evolution.
They then go in search for evidence that can distinguish between these two alternatives.
They see the evidence of the fossil record, where creatures from long ago were very different to creatures from today. They see that there is a specific chronology of these creatures, that the more simplistic creatures were from long ago, that there was a point were vertibrates began, where land based animals began, where birds began, they see how these animals spread over the world in a way consistent with continental shift.
They then see the evidence of living creatures that look similiar but are slightly different when on isolated island. They see that one/some can not interbreed.
They see the evidence of genetics, in particular protogenes (broken genes), similar in a small closely related group of primates indicating common ancestry.
They decide that if god did create the species then god has been very tricky, making it look as if it has been via the evolution process, they consider this option not plausible thus they discard it.
They consider the evolution theory the only plausible theory thus they consider evolution to be fact.
Of course it is always possible that some new theory comes up that is the correct one and maybe the old gets proven incorrect, so what was considered a fact can always be overturned. But without having concieved of other theories and if their is only one plausible theory offered which is falsifiable and consistent with an abundance of diverse evidence then it is not a belief, it is fact.
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11-09-2013, 06:29 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(11-09-2013 01:53 AM)absols Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 06:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are an idiot. Of course homo sapiens evolved.

u shit, when did u get to do anything by urself alone
obviously not even a sentence while u clearly reject self free expressions ones for the shit u r always

fuck u and ur pretense of being evolved

thousands of years ago any self awareness was clearly individually intelligent not only at the intellectual level but also physically able to exist positively alone

u r nothing but shit if u cant realize anything by urself, when anything u copy or ur pick of else values is surely the opposite by u

Please get a translator or mental health help. Or both.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-09-2013, 06:52 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(11-09-2013 01:53 AM)absols Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 06:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are an idiot. Of course homo sapiens evolved.

u shit, when did u get to do anything by urself alone
obviously not even a sentence while u clearly reject self free expressions ones for the shit u r always

fuck u and ur pretense of being evolved

thousands of years ago any self awareness was clearly individually intelligent not only at the intellectual level but also physically able to exist positively alone

u r nothing but shit if u cant realize anything by urself, when anything u copy or ur pick of else values is surely the opposite by u

"Thousands of years ago" there was no "individually intelligent" anything. Humans were conscious of "group membership". *Individualism* is a modern idea. No one could "exist positively alone". That's not how survival happened.

Along with a translator, and psychiatrist, go get an education, lovey.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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11-09-2013, 08:36 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(10-09-2013 06:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Sure. Of course, you're deliberately and repeatedly ignoring that while that is your definition, others use 'fact' to refer to the assumed characteristics of external reality in and of themselves.

Accepting your definitions and premise, your conclusion is trivial. Do you have a follow-up, or did you just want to introduce a circular tautology?

You are like a Republican telling a Democrat to stop using hateful and dishonest political tactics.

Or, like the US government claiming to hold to the "moral high ground".

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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11-09-2013, 09:40 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(11-09-2013 08:36 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 06:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Sure. Of course, you're deliberately and repeatedly ignoring that while that is your definition, others use 'fact' to refer to the assumed characteristics of external reality in and of themselves.

Accepting your definitions and premise, your conclusion is trivial. Do you have a follow-up, or did you just want to introduce a circular tautology?

You are like a Republican telling a Democrat to stop using hateful and dishonest political tactics.

Or, like the US government claiming to hold to the "moral high ground".

I'm afraid I don't follow.

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11-09-2013, 10:34 AM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2013 10:49 AM by absols.)
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(11-09-2013 06:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(11-09-2013 01:53 AM)absols Wrote:  u shit, when did u get to do anything by urself alone
obviously not even a sentence while u clearly reject self free expressions ones for the shit u r always

fuck u and ur pretense of being evolved

thousands of years ago any self awareness was clearly individually intelligent not only at the intellectual level but also physically able to exist positively alone

u r nothing but shit if u cant realize anything by urself, when anything u copy or ur pick of else values is surely the opposite by u

"Thousands of years ago" there was no "individually intelligent" anything. Humans were conscious of "group membership". *Individualism* is a modern idea. No one could "exist positively alone". That's not how survival happened.

Along with a translator, and psychiatrist, go get an education, lovey.

piece of shit how would u have any recognition of true facts known when u cant but deform literally the present before ur eyes

plato and a lot more were thousands of years before christ livings and their writings are still now a superior reference to true self realisations of individuals minds
not only philosophers great standard of objective true existence realisations that apply for now much more then anyone of now would say about existence

also wat u call groups, piece of sheep reference pride, as if it is the standard of always to lie about while inventing urself superiority by doing nothing at all

a lot of democracies were the reason of rising civilisations and urbanism plans thousands years before jesus, at different times
life is nothing u do moron, any is absolutely so real prosperity is impossible when u mean urselves, so it is done by up, but true democracies and intent for good and objective rights were much before true then now
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11-09-2013, 11:00 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(11-09-2013 10:34 AM)absols Wrote:  
(11-09-2013 06:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  "Thousands of years ago" there was no "individually intelligent" anything. Humans were conscious of "group membership". *Individualism* is a modern idea. No one could "exist positively alone". That's not how survival happened.

Along with a translator, and psychiatrist, go get an education, lovey.

piece of shit how would u have any recognition of true facts known when u cant but deform literally the present before ur eyes

plato and a lot more were thousands of years before christ livings and their writings are still now a superior reference to true self realisations of individuals minds
not only philosophers great standard of objective true existence realisations that apply for now much more then anyone of now would say about existence

also wat u call groups, piece of sheep reference pride, as if it is the standard of always to lie about while inventing urself superiority by doing nothing at all

a lot of democracies were the reason of rising civilisations and urbanism plans thousands years before jesus, at different times
life is nothing u do moron, any is absolutely so real prosperity is impossible when u mean urselves, so it is done by up, but true democracies and intent for good and objective rights were much before true then now

Bucky ball is a new age religious loon that will tell you that time is a substance/entity that will tell you that time is an external real substance. Drinking Beverage
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11-09-2013, 11:13 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
he will say anything that would help him to look like every politician of now, talking about groups as if he is anything but one of the mass, copying those figures of success from fooling everyone n stealing everything
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