Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
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06-09-2013, 08:19 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(06-09-2013 08:14 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Actual requires an actualizing actuator. Which is contingency. Tongue

Bucky and Cjlr don't understand that sentence.
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06-09-2013, 08:22 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(06-09-2013 08:19 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(06-09-2013 08:14 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Actual requires an actualizing actuator. Which is contingency. Tongue

Bucky and Cjlr don't understand that sentence.

We understand it perfectly.
There is no evidence the universe works that way.
As I said, "show me the money", or shut the fuck up.

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Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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06-09-2013, 08:23 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(06-09-2013 08:08 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(06-09-2013 07:13 AM)I and I Wrote:  No, Bucky is arguing that actuality is external to human minds, I am arguing that actuality like the word fact is a conceptual linguistic tool that we use to relate to the external world.

The functioning of the universe isn't constant, it never has been.

As I said, I knew you had an agenda. You have been arguing this bullshit since your first day here when you attempted to say that time did not actually exist.
The universe exists, and is independent of human minds. Human minds could not have evolved, and work according to FACTS (the laws of nature), if this were not the case. You have posited something, and provided NOT ONE SHRED of evidence for your crap position. Give us the evidence or STFU. Where is the evidence the universe acts randomly UNTIL human minds "name" something. When you die, the universe will go on, no matter that your brain ceases to continue to perceive it.
Your proposition is crap, and you have NO, (NOT ONE PIECE) of evidence to support it.

you seem to not understand simple shit. If you need a human brain to conceptualize and categorize things as facts, then this process can't happen absent a human brain.

Are you implying there are other intelligent beings doing some conceptualizing before humans existed or absent human knowledge?
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06-09-2013, 08:26 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(06-09-2013 08:23 AM)I and I Wrote:  If you need a human brain to conceptualize and categorize things as facts, then this process can't happen absent a human brain.

This conclusion is trivial. So what?

(06-09-2013 08:23 AM)I and I Wrote:  Are you implying there are other intelligent beings doing some conceptualizing before humans existed or absent human knowledge?

The existence of external reality is something you have already agreed with.

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06-09-2013, 08:37 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(06-09-2013 08:23 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(06-09-2013 08:08 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  As I said, I knew you had an agenda. You have been arguing this bullshit since your first day here when you attempted to say that time did not actually exist.
The universe exists, and is independent of human minds. Human minds could not have evolved, and work according to FACTS (the laws of nature), if this were not the case. You have posited something, and provided NOT ONE SHRED of evidence for your crap position. Give us the evidence or STFU. Where is the evidence the universe acts randomly UNTIL human minds "name" something. When you die, the universe will go on, no matter that your brain ceases to continue to perceive it.
Your proposition is crap, and you have NO, (NOT ONE PIECE) of evidence to support it.

you seem to not understand simple shit. If you need a human brain to conceptualize and categorize things as facts, then this process can't happen absent a human brain.

Are you implying there are other intelligent beings doing some conceptualizing before humans existed or absent human knowledge?

Nice try.
SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE.

You failed to provide the evidence.

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE ?


(You failed to define the word "fact" on purpose, as you intended to equivocate it's definition to support this bullshit argument from the start. The failure here is YOU failing to define what is "actual" and what is "named" as fact, and how they are different. You continue to insist on conflating the two, as you find it convenient.
You are pathetic, and incapable of a coherent argument. So what is this about.
It's about YOU, attention seeking. Attention for crap, meaningless drivel.
Have fun, talking to yourself. I knew I should not have even tried.

Have you ever considered seeing a psychiatrist ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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06-09-2013, 09:06 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(06-09-2013 08:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(06-09-2013 08:19 AM)I and I Wrote:  Bucky and Cjlr don't understand that sentence.

We understand it perfectly.
There is no evidence the universe works that way.
As I said, "show me the money", or shut the fuck up.

Nobody's understanding that sentence.

What we all agree on, is I&I always has agenda. Thumbsup

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06-09-2013, 09:08 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(06-09-2013 09:06 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Nobody's understanding that sentence.

Even YOU?
Tongue

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06-09-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
(06-09-2013 09:08 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(06-09-2013 09:06 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Nobody's understanding that sentence.

Even YOU?
Tongue

If the sage is one in a million, then the truth is a lie.

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06-09-2013, 11:12 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
There is no evidence (none at all), and none has been provided, that the universe EVER worked in any way, OTHER than what humans have agreed to name as "fact". The actuality of the physical processes is not contingent on the naming, or being observed. They worked and happened LONG before any brain saw order, and did the naming (as "facts").

He obviously has no evidence to support his bullshit claim. He's also incapable of critical thinking, as he continues to regularly demonstrate.

Fact. Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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06-09-2013, 11:17 AM
RE: Do facts require belief for it to be a fact?
No matter how many people believe something or how hard they believe it; reality will never change in accord with those beliefs. If humans were all to suddenly go out of existence, say, if, for example, the earth was hit with a meteorite or pulsar, the universe would not change or go out of existence with them.

It doesn't matter how profound or effectual a belief is, beliefs still don't matter, on facts; the eternal unchanging, unchangeable truth about reality really matters.

So no, facts do not, at all, ever, require belief for them to be facts. As for Newtonian physics... what the fuck are you talking about 'people stopped believing in it?' Newtonian physics is still true, it's just that modern physics is a development on Newtonian physics.

Jesus, you'd think these things would just be easy to intuit, but apparently not. Or Mithras or even Odin and Osiris, for that matter.

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"Humans always measure what they see in front of them to what they already know. They will deny anything outside of that. They are shallow lifeforms, so enthralled with superficial appearances that they fail to see the truth."
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