Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
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07-05-2014, 11:15 AM
RE: Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
(07-05-2014 11:09 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  I believe you are mistaken. I have laid out the semantic correction that will occur to signify the situation that you describe (no need for atheism), but atheists refuse to accept it, much less progress it - they unwittingly perpetuate the stagnation of the revolution that they are really wishing for.

Are you talking about the substitution of the term "atheist" with the term "humanist"?

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07-05-2014, 11:16 AM
RE: Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
(06-05-2014 11:30 PM)kim Wrote:  1957 Chevrolet Two-Ten Townsman 4-door 6-passenger Station Wagon
[Image: 57_Chevy_210.jpg]

I fail to understand the hysteria that car buffs experience with these cars. They are the epitome of ugly shit cars. They were to automotive design what The Beatles were to music.

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07-05-2014, 11:22 AM
RE: Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
(07-05-2014 11:15 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Are you talking about the substitution of the term "atheist" with the term "humanist"?

That is a simplification of it - there needs to be a better definition for both terms.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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07-05-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
(07-05-2014 10:30 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 10:11 AM)Artie Wrote:  An irrational and immoral person who is not a theist may assign absolutely no value to human beings and kill them in millions (Stalin), a person who is not a theist may not prefer "critical thinking and evidence" and believe in whatever he wants no matter how irrational as long as it doesn't involve gods.
You may describe the person with out morality, but Stalin probably believed he was exterminating burdensome people to make way for the better civilization based on scientific information (inaccurate by today's standards).

[citation needed]

You don't speak for what Stalin thought or believed. You are simply strawmanning out your ass.

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07-05-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
(07-05-2014 11:09 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  I believe you are mistaken. I have laid out the semantic correction that will occur to signify the situation that you describe (no need for atheism), but atheists refuse to accept it, much less progress it - they unwittingly perpetuate the stagnation of the revolution that they are really wishing for.
I have never wished for a revolution. Stop lying saying I am wishing for a revolution when I don't.
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07-05-2014, 11:28 AM
RE: Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
(07-05-2014 11:09 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 10:50 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  . . . and many people in here will agree that it is not a name that we like or wish to hold forever. I believe most of us are wishing there will be a day when it won't even need to exist as a word.
I believe you are mistaken. I have laid out the semantic correction that will occur to signify the situation that you describe (no need for atheism), but atheists refuse to accept it, much less progress it - they unwittingly perpetuate the stagnation of the revolution that they are really wishing for.

I think your -50 rep is a pretty clear indication of just how widely-accepted your "improvements" to the English language are going to be.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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07-05-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
(07-05-2014 11:22 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 11:15 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Are you talking about the substitution of the term "atheist" with the term "humanist"?

That is a simplification of it - there needs to be a better definition for both terms.

Well, if you're going to try and argue for the definition of "atheism" with a Greek, it won't get you anywhere Drinking Beverage

In any case, there are atheists who are not humanists. Buddhism is a form of atheism, but can you say that all Buddhists in the world are humanists?

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07-05-2014, 11:47 AM
RE: Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
(06-05-2014 05:26 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  The thread subject explains it all. I saw this comment on a Youtube video and I thought it would be worth discussing. Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist? I think this question can be a little tricky because it is true, that because of religion and because of the creation of Gods we had to separate ourselves and that resulted in the term Atheist, but at the same time we don't need a God to not believe in a God, we just don't believe in one because it doesn't fit the natural world and reality. What are your thoughts? Someone else made a comment which I thought was pretty good and it said:
Quote: Do non believers in unicorns need Unicorns in order to call themselves non-believers in unicorns?
No. In fact, 'non believers in unicorns' isn't even its own term, like 'atheism'.
It's the standard position.
The person that makes the claim 'unicorns exist' is required to explain it, not the person who does not believe in their existence.
No. No god needed. Only the concept of a god.

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07-05-2014, 11:55 AM
RE: Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
(07-05-2014 11:47 AM)Impulse Wrote:  No. No god needed. Only the concept of a god.

...which is all there is, anyway.

Drinking Beverage

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07-05-2014, 12:55 PM
RE: Do non-believers need God in order to call themselves Atheist?
(07-05-2014 11:32 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 11:22 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  That is a simplification of it - there needs to be a better definition for both terms.

Well, if you're going to try and argue for the definition of "atheism" with a Greek, it won't get you anywhere Drinking Beverage

In any case, there are atheists who are not humanists. Buddhism is a form of atheism, but can you say that all Buddhists in the world are humanists?
The definitions need to be corrected. Buddhism is a humanist religion. Atheism is a political doctrine opposed to theist religious doctrine as the basis of public policy.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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