Do or Die
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24-09-2016, 10:04 AM
Do or Die
OK guys...I've been doing alot of thinking, and basically, I really like most of you. I think you're good people, and many of your ideas and philosophies have a great deal of merit, even if they are not my own.

But I am finding that I walk on eggshells around here, I can't be myself, because every time I do you guys go after me like rabid dogs. I decided I'm tired of that, so I'm going to speak my mind and say my piece, and if it just gets to the point of abuse, like I fear it will, then I will move on. It's alot like the conversations I have had with several of you, trapped in the wrong body (sex) or trapped in a theist world, etc. I don't feel free here. I don't mind lively debate, but outright abuse is counterproductive, and since I am not as evolved as you are, I just want to punch somebody in the throat, and since the internet hasn't offered that service yet, it is just frustrating. I hope I have proven to you that I am a caring, intelligent guy with a lot of heart, who would drive cross country to rescue any of you- literally- if you needed me. I'm not young, nor am I old, yet- although it probably seems like it to some of you. I am disheartened when my wealth of knowledge and experience is just ignored because my opinion differs from yours. I would lay money on the fact that I have as much life experience as anyone on this board, and much more than most. That does mean something, you know- it really does. You'll see one day, looking back. Do you feel the same about everything now as you did when you were 10? Of course not. If you're 25 now, do you honestly think your perspective won't have changed radically when you're 50?

So here goes.

One of my many problems with the Liberal view is the massive programs to help people- I'm in favor of helping people, don't get me wrong. But Liberals- IMHO- see the world as they WISH it was, instead of how it really is. Human beings are going to ABUSE those programs. They need to be MINIMAL- just enough to get them back on their feet. (I'm not talking about disability here) They should go to bed a little hungry, they should feel bad that their kids don't have the things other kids do- that makes them want to better themselves. It's the same argument as the one against "trophies for everybody!" Where is the incentive to do better??? Human beings NEED INCENTIVE! They should have to ride the bus, they should NOT be able to buy candy or cigarettes or booze. They will get a job or go to school or whatever it takes, if their life SUCKS on welfare. They survive, but only just. There should be programs to pay for them to be educated- or to help pay, otherwise they will become lifelong students. Human beings are opportunists. Recognize that. Republicans don't want to cut programs because they want the money themselves! They understand the nature of the human animal.
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Oh my god, this bullshit idea that I somehow owe blacks something??? Fucking ridiculous. Anyone who says that is either A. Black or B. a bleeding heart liberal VERY misinformed about the nature of slavery back in the US's slave days.
If you study ACTUAL records of the slave days, you'll find that blacks sold blacks- in Africa and elsewhere, blacks sold family members, they sold members of other tribes who had been captured in battle, this wasn't the evil white man rounding up slaves, this is PEOPLE of all colors taking advantage (There is that tendency towards opportunist again) of a free workforce. It was business and opportunity. It was morally wrong by today's standards, and the morals we judge that by were formed during this period.

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I found many, many articles and interviews that support this next hotbutton issue...and I was going to post them. I uploaded them to my tinypic page, and then changed my mind. If you think this is mistaken, then go find your own evidence.

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You cannot have healthy immigration without INTEGRATION. This is a very simple concept. Yet Muslims REFUSE to integrate, and instead want US to change to accommodate THEM! If their way is so great, why did they leave their country? Go Home! Keep your religion and your language alive, certainly, if it is important to you- I speak German and have spent alot of time in Germany- but I am an AMERICAN. I served in the military with honor, as an F-15C fighter pilot. I salute the flag- out of respect for all that it stands for, my ability to be free. I do not salute a rag, nor a person, when I salute the flag- I salute an ideal.
All Muslims are BAD. Yep. That is very true. I can hear heads exploding.
But since they refuse to police themselves, and they refuse to identify the radicals among themselves, we have no choice, in the interests of keeping our country's citizens safe from harm, but to treat them this way. It's their own fault- weed out the radicals, identify them to the powers that be, turn your religion or your culture into one of peace and prosperity through hard work, sacrifice, facing danger and taking risks. That's how freedom is won, EVERY SINGLE TIME. If they aren't willing to do that, then GO HOME, or face the fact that YOU ARE ALL BAD.

Frankly, folks, if you can't grasp this concept and the need for it, you aren't worth talking to. You're going to get someone killed.

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So. There I am. I have a lifetime of experience behind me, and although I hold a master's degree, my life was not spent in school, it was spent in the world, experiencing all it had to offer. My choices do not come from comparing speakers during political debates and reading the Huffington Post. My choices come from blood and guts and dead children and body parts and sadness and suffering and pain and hunger and sacrifice. My choices come from real memories and real images in my head. I know what the world is really like. It isn't pretty, but it's what we have.

Now let's see who still likes me- if anyone did.
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24-09-2016, 10:11 AM
RE: Do or Die
You won't get any argument out of me.

1. Because I still like you.

2. I long ago learned but if you want to keep friends you have to learn how to live with their differences.


I'm a double atheist. I don't believe in your god or your politician.
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24-09-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: Do or Die
There are certain topics here that will bring out certain people. I won't list which topics and which people other than to poke at biker a little...bring up tattoos and biker jumps onboard with anti tattoo posts. You know what? I don't care. I have come to expect it and in fact am a little disappointed when he takes a while to show up to the party.

Guns...there are a list of people who are going to go ape shit over the topic of gun ownership. I can nearly recite some of the mantras from some of the anti gun people.

Racism...yep, there are a group that will rush in with an extreme side there too.

Trump and Clinton...OMG...all I have to do is see certain names and I know that I don't even need to read their post.

A couple years back we even had a member who went all sideways against breast implants, even for cancer patients such as myself.

Just let it wash over you. There will be a group here that will go on the attack when their pet issues are mentioned.

TDO - you have strong views on certain issues as have many of us. I think you have contributed A LOT to this forum. I am not so bold as to state that as a 'we' declaration as some people do here...those who think they speak for the whole forum...those who make me gag when they do so.

You will be argued with because you take, and defend, your stance on certain issues. The wishy, washy people who can't make up their minds about anything aren't going to stir much argument. They will bring in the people who want them to define a stance even when it's apparent they don't have one.

Take what's good from here. There are good people here and there are assholes and there are complete nut jobs...just like in real life.

If you notice there are usually certain people who go into attack mode and others who really want to debate.

I like ya...hell, I even like biker. But then Girly likes trainwreck so there really is no accounting for taste, or good sense. Tongue

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. -JF
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24-09-2016, 10:39 AM
RE: Do or Die
I like ya. Big Grin

I just disagree with how you choose to view people who don't think like you. I can appreciate where you are coming from. But you need to appreciate that if there weren't people who viewed the world as it could be, as it should be, and as it might be if only we'd stop looking at everyone else as an enemy, then the world would only get worse.

If we all thought like you, if the right was able to control everything, I see the US turning into a very ugly place, where everyone's freedom is not cherished, and only a select few are able to be successful, based on their "Americanness". Because fuck you if you can't be Merikan like I am.

I get that you have a ton of life experience, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you have interpreted it all correctly. There are a lot of people right here on this forum with a ton of life experience as well, and they don't see things like you do. I appreciate your side, I just don't agree with you.

That being said, I think you're a really good dude. You've got a lot of fun stories and it's always good to have a dissenting side of any argument, otherwise all of us liberal bastards just sit around and wack each other off all day. Tongue

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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24-09-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: Do or Die
Attacks on people or opinions are always useless.

But categorizing people the way you do is also impossible to do without getting people upset.

Not all atheists (liberals, whites, blacks, muslims, theists, German shepherds, 3 year olds,.......) are the same.

People don't like when they are told who or what they are - because it's usually wrong.

This goes for both conservatives and liberals and everyone else, too.

If you concentrate on the issues and omit your opinions about groups of people, you will get rational conversation. If you try to shove people in compartments they don't fit into, you are going to get resistance.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-09-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: Do or Die
I still like you.

I don't understand why you're defining yourself by the people and things that you don't like. Druthers have never mattered.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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24-09-2016, 11:11 AM
RE: Do or Die
(24-09-2016 10:34 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Just let it wash over you. There will be a group here that will go on the attack when their pet issues are mentioned.

What she said. If I wasn't having fun here what would be the point of staying? Have fun DarkHeart.

(24-09-2016 10:34 AM)Anjele Wrote:  But then Girly likes trainwreck so there really is no accounting for taste, or good sense. Tongue

It's not like I have a choice. He holds the lease.

[Image: cardboard.jpg]

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24-09-2016, 11:15 AM
RE: Do or Die
(24-09-2016 10:04 AM)The Dark One Wrote:  Now let's see who still likes me- if anyone did.

You've been part of this Forum for about 2 months and you have a rep of 21 , and 600 likes in 300 posts.

Nuf' said...

A friend in the hole

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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24-09-2016, 11:42 AM
RE: Do or Die
You're not bad .. for a Caucasian.
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24-09-2016, 12:09 PM
RE: Do or Die
Just let it roll off your back. E-tough people, I got over a long time ago. When one of them starts in on you, just think of a T-Rex attempting to masturbate, sitting in front of the other monitor. Laughat And maybe some of your views will change. Not that I disagree with you on all of your views. I'm at a point in my life where I just want to have fun with it, and any argumentation I see, Ima walk right on by.
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