Do or Die
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-10-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: Do or Die
(01-10-2016 09:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  Are you really this dim-witted?
Look Chas, I'm trying real hard to be civil with you. If your going to get personal like this then I'm just not going to bother again.


(01-10-2016 09:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why do you worship free trade?
Because when you put trade embargoes and tariffs on a country you make life very difficult for them, and you then create enemies, who perhaps become terrorists.

In a free market economy, places that are most efficient at producing certain goods and services are the places that naturally do them. In a market with embargoes and tarrifs you end up creating a false economy where you need to continually prop up an industry that your are not good at. You put tarrifs on them, they retaliate by putting tarrifs on you. Much resentment ensues.

NZ is one of the more free trade countries in the world, much more so that USA. But anyway, the context was using it in order to put pressure on other countries to behave in the way that you want them to. In effect pushing your "Western" ways on the rest of the world.
Why do you think so many countries hate (Oh sorry, I mean LOVE) America and the west? Why do you think we are all targets of terrorism?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2016, 12:33 PM
RE: Do or Die
(01-10-2016 12:22 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 11:00 AM)tomilay Wrote:  As far as I can tell, the US has not issued any trade embargoes against any major nation. If anything, they have progressively ceded their own market to foreign or US companies operating from abroad. Do you have evidence to the contrary perhaps?
Oh, really, you think US is free international trade, they don't do trade embargoes and don't put on tarrifs? OK.

I am just asking for evidence. I want to avoid a discussion unfettered by facts.

(01-10-2016 12:22 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 11:00 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Who are these enemies? Is this yet another one of those statements that should be believed because you said it?
Aha, I must have been mistaken, everyone loves USA. Of course they do, what's not to love. I just made that stuff up. No need to worry. The world is a happy place. Americans are loved. You guys have friends everywhere. In fact everyone wants to have USA as their friend, actually, everyone wants to be an American. Wow, you guys are sooooo loved. It's amazing, I just can't find the words to describe how much everyone loves America.

See my previous response.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2016, 12:34 PM
RE: Do or Die
(01-10-2016 11:36 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  One has to really be deluded not wanting to see how unchecked business will ...
I'm sorry Deesse23, you've walked into the middle of an argument and not got the right perception of it.

Noone is arguing for unchecked business.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2016, 12:36 PM
RE: Do or Die
(01-10-2016 12:34 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 11:36 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  One has to really be deluded not wanting to see how unchecked business will ...
I'm sorry Deesse23, you've walked into the middle of an argument and not got the right perception of it.

Noone is arguing for unchecked business.

Except you are doing just that.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Revenant77x's post
01-10-2016, 12:36 PM
RE: Do or Die
(01-10-2016 02:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Stevil, I notice you still haven't answered the questions I've laid.

Do you need to be insulted in order to answer?

I prefer civility, and won't lower myself simply to get your answers ... I'll be content to let your silence speak for itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2016, 12:40 PM
RE: Do or Die
(01-10-2016 02:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Stevil, I notice you still haven't answered the questions I've laid.
Are these the questions you are hoping I will answer?


(30-09-2016 10:25 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Do you honestly think business decisions don't have moral or ethical dimensions?

Are you honestly comfortable with profit being the sole input for any business decision?

1. I don't believe in morality. There is no moral standard, only individual beliefs in morality. You can't please everyone. Businesses are there to make profit not meet everyone's moral beliefs. Business need to work within the laws of the land in order to avoid penalties. If your govt puts some laws down i.e. environmental protection etc the the businesses will need to operate within those constraints or face the penalties.

2. I think profit and long term outlook should be the sole goal of any business decision. For example, I wouldn't piss off a customer for short term gain if I can please then now and they keep coming back for more.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2016, 12:56 PM
RE: Do or Die
(01-10-2016 12:33 PM)tomilay Wrote:  I am just asking for evidence. I want to avoid a discussion unfettered by facts.

Sorry, but it's almost like you are asking me for evidence that water exists,
It is so obvious and so easy to find the evidence that I'm not going to bother. Sorry, but I'm not. If you think everyone loves America then great for you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2016, 01:03 PM
RE: Do or Die
(01-10-2016 12:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 12:34 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I'm sorry Deesse23, you've walked into the middle of an argument and not got the right perception of it.

Noone is arguing for unchecked business.

Except you are doing just that.
If you say, then it must be true.

Otherwise, hmm, you could ask. But why bother? You know the answer already.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: Do or Die
(01-10-2016 01:03 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 12:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Except you are doing just that.
If you say, then it must be true.

Otherwise, hmm, you could ask. But why bother? You know the answer already.

If you are not defending Unregulated business then you need to adjust your arguments as, to anyone reading the thread, that is what it appears you are doing.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Revenant77x's post
01-10-2016, 04:29 PM
RE: Do or Die
(01-10-2016 03:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If you are not defending Unregulated business then you need to adjust your arguments as, to anyone reading the thread, that is what it appears you are doing.
I don't need to defend a postion that I don't hold onto.
If someone is throwing a blanket and asserting that the nature of all business is evil. I don't need to defend that. I am pointing out that business has a goal for profit. If the other person tries to make out that it is evil to make profit then that is up to them.

All I am saying is that we ought to support businesses, help them to thrive.
My reasoning is that with businesses comes jobs and hence income.

The other guys seem to be make a few statements.
1. Businesses and profit making is evil.
2. Businesses have some unwritten moral obligation that they are intentionally trying to avoid.
3. Supporting business isn't the way, we should instead take money from the rich and give it to the poor.

With regards to 3. I don't see how that is sustainable, I don't see how that creates value, creates jobs, gives people skills. To me, it just creates dependency on handouts and reduces the ability for businesses to run and hence less businesses and less jobs.

I mean, I've clearly explained why I think supporting business is better, why jobs will be created.
The people talking about taxing rich and giving to the poor, haven't at all tried to explain how that creates jobs. they instead seem to be saying that business is evil and we are better off without, and that rich people are greedy and add no value and we are better off without them. I don't quite know how that works. How do you then tax them if they are gone? And if they aren't investing then where are the jobs coming from?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: