Do or Die
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
03-10-2016, 01:59 AM
RE: Do or Die
PS On top of that, there's an environmental cost to mining which is not often seen until quite late - in some cases long after the mine has closed. That cost is paid by people who live in the area, not by rich investors who got richer from the mine. So why shouldn't the riches of those rich investors be used to address that environmental cost? Effectively if they refuse they've stolen the well-being of the environment around the mine, and that is how they got rich.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like morondog's post
03-10-2016, 02:40 AM
RE: Do or Die
PPS: In this fairy story, the local Tswana people are not feckless losers who refuse to work, but they don't get to participate in the riches that are extracted from their land, using their labour.

You could take a hard line approach and say "if they want to get rich, then they should get an education, study hard and get a job working for De Beers", and sure, some have done that. But it's hardly a route to riches for everyone, only the very exceptional will be able to do that. And if they do, in order to *be* rich, they then have to participate in the exploitative system.

I think it's a lot fairer to insist that the rich in the story should share their riches, which still leaves them with a *lot*, it just doesn't leave everyone else with nothing.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like morondog's post
03-10-2016, 05:07 AM
RE: Do or Die
I dream of a day when AI can take over the running of the planet with algorithm's in place that detect and work around people trying to adjust the system to work to their own benefit, like in the final story of Issac's series of "I,robot"

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-10-2016, 05:34 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2016 05:53 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Do or Die
(03-10-2016 05:07 AM)bemore Wrote:  I dream of a day when AI can take over the running of the planet with algorithm's in place that detect and work around people trying to adjust the system to work to their own benefit, like in the final story of Issac's series of "I,robot"

That's one of the endings of Deus Ex: Invisible War. Consider

A global convergence, the creation of a consensus, created from global saturation of nanobots inside humanity that allows for global and universal shared communication with each other and a massive AI known as Helios. True democracy, true consensus, created and maintained collectively; a hybrid of individuality and a hive mind of sorts. Humanity surpasses struggling with such mundane things as war and economics in a future of unparalleled communication.









[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
03-10-2016, 05:39 AM
RE: Do or Die
(02-10-2016 09:33 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(02-10-2016 04:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  And just where do those chips, fizzy drink, smart phones, cable tv, and pizza come from? Facepalm


Putting money into the stock market puts money into peoples pockets and companies' coffers.
Spending money on goods and services puts money into the economy.

You have it backwards. Drinking Beverage

Spending and investing.
It isn't one or the other, a healthy economy requires both.

Investing provides capital. While that may help the economy, it is no guarantee.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-10-2016, 02:09 PM
RE: Do or Die
(03-10-2016 12:26 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 12:10 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Well, exactly. With free education the boy ought to be focussing at school, getting qualifications so that he can get a well paid job.

There will always be low wage jobs though, unless you think a degree is necessary to clean toilets? Is everyone supposed to be aiming to be an investment banker?
Everyone should be aiming at education yes. Especially if they want to earn enough money to get by.

If you aspire to be a toilet cleaner then sure, don't bother applying yourself in school. But also don't complain later in life that the system is rigged for the rich. It's your own choice, whether to apply yourself or not.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-10-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: Do or Die
(03-10-2016 01:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  PS On top of that, there's an environmental cost to mining which is not often seen until quite late - in some cases long after the mine has closed.
It would make sense for the local council to recognise that there may be some long term negative affects on mining and hence put some restrictions on the mining company before allowing them to mine.

That is the responsibility of the local council who gives the mining permit.
The company is expected to try and make a profit. It makes no sense to assume the company will voluntarily incur costs just to be nice. The belief in some unwritten do gooder moral code is naive to say the least. Company's aren't evil, they are there to make a profit. Governments and councils are there to represent society and are the ones responsible for setting the parameters under which companies must operate.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-10-2016, 05:29 PM
RE: Do or Die
(03-10-2016 05:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-10-2016 09:33 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Spending and investing.
It isn't one or the other, a healthy economy requires both.

Investing provides capital. While that may help the economy, it is no guarantee.

Yet without it everything comes to a grinding halt.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-10-2016, 05:37 PM
RE: Do or Die
(03-10-2016 05:29 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 05:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  Investing provides capital. While that may help the economy, it is no guarantee.

Yet without it everything comes to a grinding halt.

Many corporations in the U.S. have enormous amounts of capital that they are not plowing into the economy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-10-2016, 05:49 PM
RE: Do or Die
(03-10-2016 02:13 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 01:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  PS On top of that, there's an environmental cost to mining which is not often seen until quite late - in some cases long after the mine has closed.
It would make sense for the local council to recognise that there may be some long term negative affects on mining and hence put some restrictions on the mining company before allowing them to mine.

That is the responsibility of the local council who gives the mining permit.

That is not at all the way it works in the U.S. or Canada. Federal law governs most aspects of mining.

Quote:The company is expected to try and make a profit. It makes no sense to assume the company will voluntarily incur costs just to be nice. The belief in some unwritten do gooder moral code is naive to say the least. Company's aren't evil, they are there to make a profit. Governments and councils are there to represent society and are the ones responsible for setting the parameters under which companies must operate.

That is why laws are needed to prevent despoilation and pollution that the company wouldn't otherwise give a shit about since they aren't do-gooders.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: