Do or Die
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04-10-2016, 11:24 PM
RE: Do or Die
(04-10-2016 05:04 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I'm not really sure what govt can do in order to educate or promote parents into a more productive parenting style.

Regardless, I believe that they have a responsibility to try. If society is for the benefit of all and not just those who have money, why do we have democracy? It would seem simpler and more honest just to say that only those with money can vote.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-10-2016, 01:35 AM
RE: Do or Die
(04-10-2016 05:04 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Yes, agreed. Giving money to these parents doesn't necessarily solve this problem. It most likely wouldn't help at all.

Not so sure about that. There's a certain link between childhood malnourishment and adult intellect that tells me that helping poor folk feed their kids could be one part of breaking the cycle of poverty.
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06-10-2016, 12:52 PM
RE: Do or Die
(05-10-2016 01:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(04-10-2016 05:04 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Yes, agreed. Giving money to these parents doesn't necessarily solve this problem. It most likely wouldn't help at all.

Not so sure about that. There's a certain link between childhood malnourishment and adult intellect that tells me that helping poor folk feed their kids could be one part of breaking the cycle of poverty.
Let's take a look at an "evil" coorporative NZ company.

Fonterra

Quote:Every school day, we provide free milk to two thirds of New Zealand’s primary schools.

Quote:We’ve teamed up with Sanitarium and the Ministry of Social Development to provide a free nutritious breakfast to over 28,000 Kiwi kids every week

Quote:Since 2007, the “Fonterra Grass Roots Fund” has supported more than 2,000 local community projects.
It’s our way of giving back to the heart of the community. We support projects that promote community safety, spirit and wellbeing as well as look after the environment.

Quote:We’ve partnered with the Department of Conservation to create ‘Living Water’ areas
Living Water is our 10-year partnership with the Department of Conservation (DOC) that is working towards a sustainable dairy industry being a part of healthy, functioning ecosystems that together enrich the lives of all New Zealanders.

Quote:Dairy contributes over $8 billion back into rural and provincial towns
Our farms are spread right across the country and are a huge part of rural communities.

We are one of the largest employers in rural communities, providing jobs and on-going training right across New Zealand.
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06-10-2016, 01:29 PM
RE: Do or Die
(05-10-2016 01:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(04-10-2016 05:04 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Yes, agreed. Giving money to these parents doesn't necessarily solve this problem. It most likely wouldn't help at all.

Not so sure about that. There's a certain link between childhood malnourishment and adult intellect that tells me that helping poor folk feed their kids could be one part of breaking the cycle of poverty.

If one considers that reduction of poverty benefits society as a whole, they will support that type of government intervention. If one is fixated on an ideological position that poor people deserve it somehow, they will oppose it even to the point of absurdity.

I think Scandinavian countries in general enjoy better outcomes than the US, even though the US is just as wealthy overall because of this difference.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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06-10-2016, 01:34 PM
RE: Do or Die
(06-10-2016 12:52 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(05-10-2016 01:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Not so sure about that. There's a certain link between childhood malnourishment and adult intellect that tells me that helping poor folk feed their kids could be one part of breaking the cycle of poverty.
Let's take a look at an "evil" coorporative NZ company.

Fonterra

Quote:Every school day, we provide free milk to two thirds of New Zealand’s primary schools.

Quote:We’ve teamed up with Sanitarium and the Ministry of Social Development to provide a free nutritious breakfast to over 28,000 Kiwi kids every week

Quote:Since 2007, the “Fonterra Grass Roots Fund” has supported more than 2,000 local community projects.
It’s our way of giving back to the heart of the community. We support projects that promote community safety, spirit and wellbeing as well as look after the environment.

Quote:We’ve partnered with the Department of Conservation to create ‘Living Water’ areas
Living Water is our 10-year partnership with the Department of Conservation (DOC) that is working towards a sustainable dairy industry being a part of healthy, functioning ecosystems that together enrich the lives of all New Zealanders.

Quote:Dairy contributes over $8 billion back into rural and provincial towns
Our farms are spread right across the country and are a huge part of rural communities.

We are one of the largest employers in rural communities, providing jobs and on-going training right across New Zealand.

Well hey they're doing a good job, I guess we'll just take our eyes off the whole goddamn lot of them since they can clearly be trusted not to fuck things up.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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06-10-2016, 01:38 PM
RE: Do or Die
(06-10-2016 01:29 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(05-10-2016 01:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Not so sure about that. There's a certain link between childhood malnourishment and adult intellect that tells me that helping poor folk feed their kids could be one part of breaking the cycle of poverty.

If one considers that reduction of poverty benefits society as a whole, they will support that type of government intervention. If one is fixated on an ideological position that poor people deserve it somehow, they will oppose it even to the point of absurdity.
Giving money away doesn't solve the core problem.

The poor need a means to get qualifications, they perhaps need help in getting back in the game towards looking for a job.
It is very hard to sell yourself on the job market. It can be soul destroying, especially if you feel down about yourself.

Money doesn't do that for you. Money is impersonal, it is something cold, it isn't supportive, it isn't encouraging, it doesn't build confidence or motivation. It doesn't change bad parents into good parents, money doesn't teach parenting skills.
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06-10-2016, 02:15 PM
RE: Do or Die
(06-10-2016 12:52 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(05-10-2016 01:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Not so sure about that. There's a certain link between childhood malnourishment and adult intellect that tells me that helping poor folk feed their kids could be one part of breaking the cycle of poverty.
Let's take a look at an "evil" coorporative NZ company.

Fonterra

Quote:Every school day, we provide free milk to two thirds of New Zealand’s primary schools.

Quote:We’ve teamed up with Sanitarium and the Ministry of Social Development to provide a free nutritious breakfast to over 28,000 Kiwi kids every week

Quote:Since 2007, the “Fonterra Grass Roots Fund” has supported more than 2,000 local community projects.
It’s our way of giving back to the heart of the community. We support projects that promote community safety, spirit and wellbeing as well as look after the environment.

Quote:We’ve partnered with the Department of Conservation to create ‘Living Water’ areas
Living Water is our 10-year partnership with the Department of Conservation (DOC) that is working towards a sustainable dairy industry being a part of healthy, functioning ecosystems that together enrich the lives of all New Zealanders.

Quote:Dairy contributes over $8 billion back into rural and provincial towns
Our farms are spread right across the country and are a huge part of rural communities.

We are one of the largest employers in rural communities, providing jobs and on-going training right across New Zealand.

Pretty sure I never said all corporations are "evil". Matter of fact, I linked to an example upthread of a socially-minded company.

I've got enough words I'd like to say without you sticking more in my mouth, thanks.

And, of course, you neglected to address my point, which was (obviously, given the context) about government assistance.
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06-10-2016, 02:17 PM
RE: Do or Die
(06-10-2016 01:29 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(05-10-2016 01:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Not so sure about that. There's a certain link between childhood malnourishment and adult intellect that tells me that helping poor folk feed their kids could be one part of breaking the cycle of poverty.

If one considers that reduction of poverty benefits society as a whole, they will support that type of government intervention. If one is fixated on an ideological position that poor people deserve it somehow, they will oppose it even to the point of absurdity.

I think Scandinavian countries in general enjoy better outcomes than the US, even though the US is just as wealthy overall because of this difference.

Indeed. So far as I see it, the giant wealth disparity in America is, quite literally, a national-security issue.
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06-10-2016, 02:20 PM
RE: Do or Die
(06-10-2016 01:38 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Giving money away doesn't solve the core problem.

I sure didn't say it does.

It does, however, ameliorate its immediate consequences while giving the parents the opportunity to retrain for a higher-paying job.
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06-10-2016, 03:13 PM
RE: Do or Die
(06-10-2016 01:38 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(06-10-2016 01:29 PM)tomilay Wrote:  If one considers that reduction of poverty benefits society as a whole, they will support that type of government intervention. If one is fixated on an ideological position that poor people deserve it somehow, they will oppose it even to the point of absurdity.
Giving money away doesn't solve the core problem.

The poor need a means to get qualifications, they perhaps need help in getting back in the game towards looking for a job.
It is very hard to sell yourself on the job market. It can be soul destroying, especially if you feel down about yourself.

Money doesn't do that for you. Money is impersonal, it is something cold, it isn't supportive, it isn't encouraging, it doesn't build confidence or motivation. It doesn't change bad parents into good parents, money doesn't teach parenting skills.

Education. Education. Education.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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