Do or Die
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26-09-2016, 09:51 AM
RE: Do or Die
(24-09-2016 10:04 AM)The Dark One Wrote:  You cannot have healthy immigration without INTEGRATION. This is a very simple concept. Yet Muslims REFUSE to integrate, and instead want US to change to accommodate THEM! If their way is so great, why did they leave their country? Go Home! Keep your religion and your language alive, certainly, if it is important to you- I speak German and have spent alot of time in Germany- but I am an AMERICAN. I served in the military with honor, as an F-15C fighter pilot. I salute the flag- out of respect for all that it stands for, my ability to be free. I do not salute a rag, nor a person, when I salute the flag- I salute an ideal.
All Muslims are BAD. Yep. That is very true. I can hear heads exploding.
But since they refuse to police themselves, and they refuse to identify the radicals among themselves, we have no choice, in the interests of keeping our country's citizens safe from harm, but to treat them this way. It's their own fault- weed out the radicals, identify them to the powers that be, turn your religion or your culture into one of peace and prosperity through hard work, sacrifice, facing danger and taking risks. That's how freedom is won, EVERY SINGLE TIME. If they aren't willing to do that, then GO HOME, or face the fact that YOU ARE ALL BAD.

Frankly, folks, if you can't grasp this concept and the need for it, you aren't worth talking to. You're going to get someone killed.
I haven't been here most of the time that you have been here so I don't know you and am not familiar with your posts. But reading this part is very disturbing. Yes, I got it; you aren't truly saying all Muslims are bad (even though literally, you did say that), but you are calling them out for not outing the ones who truly are bad. You claim a wealth of knowledge and yet it seems so sorely lacking here. Many Muslims (perhaps even most) living in Muslim countries are deathly afraid to step out of line in even the smallest way. To speak out as you are wanting from them is to pretty much give an open invitation to be beheaded by the ones they would be speaking against. The consequences of such an act would likely spread to the perpetrator's family as well. Many Muslims come to the US running from that kind of life and people who think like you would deny them the escape.

It's inexcusable to hold the actions of a few against an entire population just because it's convenient or easier. No, just no. Dodgy Aren't you lucky YOU weren't born and trapped in one of those countries...? Consider And once they come here, they aren't safe even then because many still have family members living back in their native countries that would suffer the consequences of their speaking out.

As for that last sentence, you have it backwards. Any action or policy against all Muslims will simply fuel anger and resentment. It will likely cause terrorist numbers to grow and then more people to die from their attacks. Furthermore, let's say we did ban all Muslims from entering the US. Do you honestly think that would prevent deaths (i.e., won't "get someone killed")? Do you honestly think terrorists won't find a way to enter the US illegally or they won't recruit more white-looking terrorists to take their place in the US? What about attacks abroad? Sorry, but you really haven't thought this through very well.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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26-09-2016, 11:24 AM
RE: Do or Die
(26-09-2016 04:54 AM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  High fives and hugs may not always make friends but Dehumanizing people will always create enemies .

Beautifully put!
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26-09-2016, 12:43 PM
RE: Do or Die
I disagree with much of what Dark One wrote (especially the stuff about Muslims), but I also agree with some of it -- and I'm a liberal. It's OK to disagree -- the forum would be pretty boring otherwise -- but disagreement doesn't cause me not to like someone. In general, I like Dark One's forum persona (whether or not it reflects his "real" self), and I like the way he writes. And I "liked" his OP despite my disagreements.
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26-09-2016, 12:48 PM
RE: Do or Die
RE: Muslims "refusing" to integrate: You could also say this about Hasidic Jews, Amish, and probably a few other groups as well -- but I don't hear anyone calling for their deportation or denying immigration to them. I don't care whether or not they "integrate", as long as they obey our laws and don't bother me. Militant fundie Christians bother me more than any Muslim ever has -- and I don't want to deport them either.
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26-09-2016, 03:48 PM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2016 03:53 PM by The Dark One.)
RE: Do or Die
Quote:As for that last sentence, you have it backwards. Any action or policy against all Muslims will simply fuel anger and resentment. It will likely cause terrorist numbers to grow and then more people to die from their attacks. Furthermore, let's say we did ban all Muslims from entering the US. Do you honestly think that would prevent deaths (i.e., won't "get someone killed")? Do you honestly think terrorists won't find a way to enter the US illegally or they won't recruit more white-looking terrorists to take their place in the US? What about attacks abroad? Sorry, but you really haven't thought this through very well.

See, here is the arrogance I hear so often on liberal sites- I don't think you're arrogant, I don't know one way or another. But this
Quote:Sorry, but you really haven't thought this through very well.
is extremely arrogant. I have thought it through, and simply come to a different conclusion than you. Roughly half of the country (we'll find out in November if it slightly more or slightly less than half) agrees with me. So you and your half are smart, and the other half are not, because...we see the world differently?

We have our country. We have fought and bled and died and suffered and sacrificed to make it what it is. Everyone groans at "America" but the truth is, we still have more freedom than any other country on earth.

They have their country. They chose to sit back and let it be taken over by zealots and they allowed their country to become what it is. They can remain there, get angry, and fight and suffer and die to make it great, like we did, like Great Britain did, like...damned near everywhere in the world outside of the middle east has done...and eventually, after the bloody birth is complete, we will have a better world. Or they can bail out of the shithole they helped create, move to another country, behave the exact same way, and eventually turn it into a shithole too. Sounds grand.

I've been there, I've seen the nasty animals many of these people are- until you have walked through the streets of these countries and witnessed them killing each other like it's some sort of game, seen them wiring little children as bombs, treating women like property, like slaves...well, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

You can go hug all of the trees you like, save whales, cuss conservatives, worship evil witches...whatever gets you off. But when you are so incredibly brainless as to allow in people who have been fighting since the dawn of man, and who have said plainly that America must be destroyed, and who have taken destructive steps towards that end, costing thousands of innocent lives...well, it just isn't going to happen. Sorry. You can keep 'em in your half of the country, I can't stop you. They won't be in Texas.

Send them home. Have them repair their own house. They've had several millennia to do so...and yet...?

You can call it prejudice if you want, I don't care at all. I know what it is, your name calling is irrelevant. Just because some of these people claim NOT to be vicious killers of all who don't share their faith, doesn't mean they are welcome in my home. They can repair their status in the world, they just have to fight for it, like everyone else did.

I still have no idea why these people become our problem? We're on the other side of the world, our culture represents everything they profess to hate, whether they bear us ill will or not...everything about the US is at odds with their religion. So why in the world do they want to be here?
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26-09-2016, 03:50 PM
RE: Do or Die
Quote:You could also say this about Hasidic Jews, Amish, and probably a few other groups as well -- but I don't hear anyone calling for their deportation or denying immigration to them.

As soon as large radical factions of Amish form and start preaching the death of all nonbelievers and driving wagons full of dynamite into schools...I will be.
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26-09-2016, 03:56 PM
RE: Do or Die
Once again Dorky show why his oft flaunted credentials and exhaustive life experience count for nothing

1.Muslims are fighting terrorism on a national, local level.They are working with law enforcement they are talking about it in community centers and mosques. They are doing all this because the number 1 victims of terrorism are not westerners it's there fellow freaking Muslims. And the majority of terrorist attack occur in there own countries. Muslim nation have some of the strictest anti terror legislation on the planet once again get fucking informed before you spew your ignorance.

2.Not integrating you say. Tell me what would count as integration? please note i'll be looking at how you demand the same from everyone.And who are you again to say how people can and should integrate?If your going to say" but previous groups" that's a appeal to tradition and that's fallacy .And please don't screech "But they don't do it in Muslims countries " i already pointed out some Muslims countries do and even if they didn't that should not dictate how we act

3.Lastly trumpoes Muslim ban won't do shit it will just piss off a large section of the worlds populous against us. And please don't start the As long as it stops one percent of terrorist attacks it's worth it"garbage you can't percentage terrorism you can't compare 9/11 to one guy getting shot.And please don't start the "you liberals don't wanna do anything to fight terror" I want a actual plan not some half baked populist plot that Isis already knows how to get around .

I could say more but i think this will do for now

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26-09-2016, 04:00 PM
RE: Do or Die
(26-09-2016 03:50 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  
Quote:You could also say this about Hasidic Jews, Amish, and probably a few other groups as well -- but I don't hear anyone calling for their deportation or denying immigration to them.

As soon as large radical factions of Amish form and start preaching the death of all nonbelievers and driving wagons full of dynamite into schools...I will be.

1.1% isn't large

2.That wasn't the question it was about integration not violence

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26-09-2016, 05:08 PM
RE: Do or Die
(26-09-2016 04:00 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  
(26-09-2016 03:50 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  As soon as large radical factions of Amish form and start preaching the death of all nonbelievers and driving wagons full of dynamite into schools...I will be.

1.1% isn't large

2.That wasn't the question it was about integration not violence

Ah, but he has shown that he doesn't really care so much about integration if the people involved are nonviolent. It's the violence factor that has him up in arms, and to some extent, he has a point there. But I believe your first point covers that. I don't know percentages, but the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, and it's downright un-American to paint them all with the terrorist brush. I believe that, for the most part, the ones who want to come here are not the ones who have turned their countries into shitholes, nor are they terrorists. They are trying to escape shitholes that were created by terrorists. And who created the terrorists? That's not a question with a simple answer, but at least part of the answer is this: we did.
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26-09-2016, 06:06 PM
RE: Do or Die
(26-09-2016 03:48 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  They have their country. They chose to sit back and let it be taken over by zealots and they allowed their country to become what it is. They can remain there, get angry, and fight and suffer and die to make it great, like we did, like Great Britain did, like...damned near everywhere in the world outside of the middle east has done...and eventually, after the bloody birth is complete, we will have a better world. Or they can bail out of the shithole they helped create, move to another country, behave the exact same way, and eventually turn it into a shithole too. Sounds grand.

Or they can choose to immigrate here like the Pilgrims.

What kind of folks run away, some with their children on their backs, from bloodshed, dictatorship and anarchy? Right?

(26-09-2016 03:48 PM)The Dark One Wrote:  I've been there, I've seen the nasty animals many of these people are- until you have walked through the streets of these countries and witnessed them killing each other like it's some sort of game, seen them wiring little children as bombs, treating women like property, like slaves...well, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

Animals, at least all non-primates, don't wire children with bombs. Human primates do. There are also people in this country who treat others like crap or endorse the crappy treatment of others "not like them". Shittyness, goodness or whatever you feel like calling it is not a preserve of a small select tribe.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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