Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
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08-12-2014, 05:21 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
Throughout history humans have been moral relativists. Theists have cherry-picked which parts of scripture to follow based on nothing more than their own prejudices and those of their churches. This can be easily shown by contrasting Mother Teresa with the Westboro Baptists. Absolute Morality can't produce that sort of divergence. Absolute morality is nothing more than a fiction concocted by the church to give them a facade of morality while exerting their authority over you.

Atheists have the same basis for morality that any human has ever had, we just don't incorporate much scripture or religion into its foundations.

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08-12-2014, 05:21 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(08-12-2014 04:58 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(08-12-2014 04:56 PM)The Drake Wrote:  I think I may have called you a troll earlier and I apologize. But I am still wondering if you are asking this for yourself, or if you are asking this of others for the sake of discussion.

Morality does not need a divine component. We are social animals. And decisions that benefit the collective, more often than not, benefit the individual as well. One collective morality may go against those of another. But as a species there has always been an effort to make a better whole.

The lack of a divinely inspired moral compass should not give anyone a carte blanche to walk around eating babies. Because they think it's OK...and they won't get spanked by their magical sky daddy, because he doesn't exist. The rest of us will spank you. Spank you very much.

Exactly, but that doesn't require some standard of morals, simply not wanting to get spanked is enough, you don't have to make some standard of morals to replace the one that God used to give you, just let it go, embrace your freedom from any codes or laws given to anyone but yourself!]

"You don't need God to be moral"

I take it further

"You don't need morals to live a fulfilling life or have friends, self interest get's you far enough"

Perhaps we don't need a standard. But eventually we end up with a list of crap we shouldn't do, lest we get spanked. Whether it's within our own little group or out in society as a whole.

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08-12-2014, 05:29 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(08-12-2014 05:21 PM)The Drake Wrote:  
(08-12-2014 04:58 PM)tear151 Wrote:  Exactly, but that doesn't require some standard of morals, simply not wanting to get spanked is enough, you don't have to make some standard of morals to replace the one that God used to give you, just let it go, embrace your freedom from any codes or laws given to anyone but yourself!]

"You don't need God to be moral"

I take it further

"You don't need morals to live a fulfilling life or have friends, self interest get's you far enough"

Perhaps we don't need a standard. But eventually we end up with a list of crap we shouldn't do, lest we get spanked. Whether it's within our own little group or out in society as a whole.

Exactly, you are also free to value making people happy, but be aware of the fundamental motive, don't get arrogant, don't tell other people that you are better than them because you find joy in helping others, because ultimately it's all self interest.

"A witty quote means nothing"
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08-12-2014, 05:55 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(08-12-2014 05:29 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(08-12-2014 05:21 PM)The Drake Wrote:  Perhaps we don't need a standard. But eventually we end up with a list of crap we shouldn't do, lest we get spanked. Whether it's within our own little group or out in society as a whole.

Exactly, you are also free to value making people happy, but be aware of the fundamental motive, don't get arrogant, don't tell other people that you are better than them because you find joy in helping others, because ultimately it's all self interest.

Yes it is. But helping others and helping myself is all part of the same thing. I don't need a god. It doesn't make me better. It just makes me another person doing good shit. And if it helps someone and makes the community better as a whole, then it may ultimately benefit me. I'm so frikking selfish.

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08-12-2014, 05:57 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
I was raised a Catholic by force as a child. I hated it. I have to admit my morals in the past have come from being raised in the church. But now I am free to examine and change any way I want. The problem is I haven't learned how to do that yet. I am doing a lot of contemplation, though. One thing I respect is not to do harm to any others. But then I have done much harm in the past not really intending to. Atheism has opened a whole new world to me to be a free thinker. I guess doing a lot of thinking on what is right to me and wrong to me will be my task now.
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08-12-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(08-12-2014 05:21 PM)The Drake Wrote:  
(08-12-2014 04:58 PM)tear151 Wrote:  Exactly, but that doesn't require some standard of morals, simply not wanting to get spanked is enough, you don't have to make some standard of morals to replace the one that God used to give you, just let it go, embrace your freedom from any codes or laws given to anyone but yourself!]

"You don't need God to be moral"

I take it further

"You don't need morals to live a fulfilling life or have friends, self interest get's you far enough"

Perhaps we don't need a standard. But eventually we end up with a list of crap we shouldn't do, lest we get spanked. Whether it's within our own little group or out in society as a whole.

{Perk}
Spank?
Whut?



Oh crap.....that was my out loud voice huh?
Dammit







Nevermind (roseanna danna voice)

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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08-12-2014, 06:10 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
Wow! Is this still a thing?

If you're looking for morality that isn't followed nearly as much as it used to be, if not looking for morals that flat out shouldn't be followed ever, then read the bible! Undecided

Gems like "it's o.k. to have your way with a virgin daughter so long as you got enough money to pay off the daddy", "slaves should mind their masters, if not love them", & "genocide is a perfectly reasonable solution to one's problems, cause gawd does it all the time!", are fine examples of morals that supposedly come from gawd himself that anyone with a conscious would throw out in a heart beat!

Do atheists have a basis for morality? Sure! Even if it's "anything that's the exact opposite of that horrible, inhumane, crap in the bible"! And in that instance it most definitely has nothing to do with what that imaginary, great-leader-like, violent dictator in the sky, has to say on the subject! Dodgy

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08-12-2014, 06:14 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(08-12-2014 05:57 PM)RuthD Wrote:  I was raised a Catholic by force as a child. I hated it. I have to admit my morals in the past have come from being raised in the church. But now I am free to examine and change any way I want. The problem is I haven't learned how to do that yet. I am doing a lot of contemplation, though. One thing I respect is not to do harm to any others. But then I have done much harm in the past not really intending to. Atheism has opened a whole new world to me to be a free thinker. I guess doing a lot of thinking on what is right to me and wrong to me will be my task now.

For the most part, the morals instilled on you by "the church" are good. It's up to you to interpret them in the context of your new found freedom and apply them in your approach to the world as a whole.

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08-12-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(08-12-2014 05:58 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(08-12-2014 05:21 PM)The Drake Wrote:  Perhaps we don't need a standard. But eventually we end up with a list of crap we shouldn't do, lest we get spanked. Whether it's within our own little group or out in society as a whole.

{Perk}
Spank?
Whut?


Oh crap.....that was my out loud voice huh?
Dammit







Nevermind (roseanna danna voice)

Have you done something that requires a spanking ?

The second mouse gets the cheese.
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08-12-2014, 06:29 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(08-12-2014 06:10 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Wow! Is this still a thing?

If you're looking for morality that isn't followed nearly as much as it used to be, if not looking for morals that flat out shouldn't be followed ever, then read the bible! Undecided

Gems like "it's o.k. to have your way with a virgin daughter so long as you got enough money to pay off the daddy", "slaves should mind their masters, if not love them", & "genocide is a perfectly reasonable solution to one's problems, cause gawd does it all the time!", are fine examples of morals that supposedly come from gawd himself that anyone with a conscious would throw out in a heart beat!

Do atheists have a basis for morality? Sure! Even if it's "anything that's the exact opposite of that horrible, inhumane, crap in the bible"! And in that instance it most definitely has nothing to do with what that imaginary, great-leader-like, violent dictator in the sky, has to say on the subject! Dodgy

The Violent Dick...tater in the sky is the whole reason Christianity was invented. It was like "Dudes...so sorry about the flood and shit...I know you're pissed. But check out this guy...He's way cool...loves everybody...and looks like Barry Gibb."

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