Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
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06-12-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(06-12-2014 05:13 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 05:11 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  It was obviously favored by evolution so I gather if it didn't exist, we wouldn't be alive.

So's belief in god

I don't think species earlier than Homo Sapiens had religions.

But in any case, what is your point?

Empathy is in the human DNA, in our biology. If some people lack it, why should those of us who are capable of it dismiss it?

It's like a man born without a penis arguing for the dismemberment of all men.

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06-12-2014, 05:17 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(06-12-2014 05:13 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 05:11 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Dangerous to others.

And why is that bad? Thats a circular argument, youve basically told its immoral as a rebuttal to amoralism.

Nope. Never said you were immoral, only a danger to others. People like that tend to be quickly removed from the gene pool.

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06-12-2014, 05:19 PM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2014 05:22 PM by tear151.)
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(06-12-2014 05:17 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 05:13 PM)tear151 Wrote:  And why is that bad? Thats a circular argument, youve basically told its immoral as a rebuttal to amoralism.

Nope. Never said you were immoral, only a danger to others. People like that tend to be quickly removed from the gene pool.

The ideas that lead to reproduction are not automatically.correct, anymore than fascisms tendency yo destroy other ideologies made it right. Why am I bad for lacking empathy? Surely the innateness of morality means it was accepted without reason? We do backwards logic.

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06-12-2014, 05:21 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(06-12-2014 05:16 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 05:13 PM)tear151 Wrote:  So's belief in god

I don't think species earlier than Homo Sapiens had religions.

But in any case, what is your point?

Empathy is in the human DNA, in our biology. If some people lack it, why should those of us who are capable of it dismiss it?

It's like a man born without a penis arguing for the dismemberment of all men.

By being innate, we start with an idea, and we search for stuff to prove it. its entirely emotional, by saying your morals are entirely empathy based youve turned morality into simply a different expression of self interest, you help others because it brings you joy to help them.

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06-12-2014, 05:24 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(06-12-2014 04:30 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 04:18 PM)tear151 Wrote:  Why not simply subjectively reject morals and live a sociopathic life where you gain conscious control over you empathy.

You can, but I might shoot you or call in law enforcement if you try to take anything from me or harm me.

It's pretty cool how us primates got together and made laws and such and decided to enforce them for the sake of social order.

Thats not morality as most people see it, its simply an uneasy peace by social contract, even sociopaths would follow it.

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06-12-2014, 05:27 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(06-12-2014 05:21 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 05:16 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  I don't think species earlier than Homo Sapiens had religions.

But in any case, what is your point?

Empathy is in the human DNA, in our biology. If some people lack it, why should those of us who are capable of it dismiss it?

It's like a man born without a penis arguing for the dismemberment of all men.

By being innate, we start with an idea, and we search for stuff to prove it. its entirely emotional, by saying your morals are entirely empathy based youve turned morality into simply a different expression of self interest, you help others because it brings you joy to help them.

How do you explain cases of people giving up their lives to save someone else then?


(06-12-2014 05:19 PM)tear151 Wrote:  The ideas that lead to reproduction are not automatically.correct, anymore than fascisms tendency yo destroy other ideologies made it right. Why am I bad for lacking empathy? Surely the innateness of morality means it was accepted without reason? We do backwards logic.

People who lack empathy don't hesitate to kill or act violently as much as those who feel empathy.

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06-12-2014, 05:48 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(06-12-2014 05:27 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 05:21 PM)tear151 Wrote:  By being innate, we start with an idea, and we search for stuff to prove it. its entirely emotional, by saying your morals are entirely empathy based youve turned morality into simply a different expression of self interest, you help others because it brings you joy to help them.

How do you explain cases of people giving up their lives to save someone else then?


(06-12-2014 05:19 PM)tear151 Wrote:  The ideas that lead to reproduction are not automatically.correct, anymore than fascisms tendency yo destroy other ideologies made it right. Why am I bad for lacking empathy? Surely the innateness of morality means it was accepted without reason? We do backwards logic.

People who lack empathy don't hesitate to kill or act violently as much as those who feel empathy.

I explain it in the same way people give up their lives for God, they are deluded and do it because fetishise martyrdom, for your approval, for the men of the world to gather around these saints and ponder and question what power they have to doing something so unnatural, that is their call.

Erm... no... they don't, again, that's a circular argument, I've asked you why things are bad, you say they lack empathy, you say lacking empathy is bad because it leads to violence and murder. God exists because God exists because God exists

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06-12-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(06-12-2014 05:04 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 05:01 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You sound sociopathic with last comment.

And that makes me wrong? "Your beliefs sounds like godless heathenry!" "blasphemy"

No, sociopathy is an actual problem.

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06-12-2014, 05:51 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
“The disillusioned refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the Godless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift amnesty beside the nihilistic embrace”
-The statue of humanism welcoming the atheists

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06-12-2014, 05:51 PM
RE: Do we as atheists REALLY have any basis for morals?
(06-12-2014 05:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 05:04 PM)tear151 Wrote:  And that makes me wrong? "Your beliefs sounds like godless heathenry!" "blasphemy"

No, sociopathy is an actual problem.

You call it a problem because they are abnormal, they lack morals, welcome back to circular argument territory. Why is sociopathy a problem?

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