Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
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12-02-2012, 06:36 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
I've been poor. I mean the real kind of poor. Live in my car poor. Constantly hungry poor. No gas to move my home poor.

It's not something I'm proud of. I am proud that I turned it around though. And I did it with no education. I graduated high school (just barely) and have no formal education beyond that. I hear all the time that I am "the exception to the rule", but since I turned things around, I have mentored several young people, and helped them do the same. It takes hard work and perseverence, but it doesn't require an education.

I'll grant that an education can help, and that it often leads to more monetary wealth, but education does not have to determine whether you are poor or not. Motivation, and a willingness to teach yourself instead of relying on schools can be just as educational. I bring this up not to dispute what anyone is saying, but simply to point out that formal education (ie college, university, etc.) is not the only kind of education.

I own two successful businesses, I own my farm, and will be mortgage free in five years on my modest but new 1400sq ft house. I did that with hard work, and no education.

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12-02-2012, 06:47 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(12-02-2012 06:36 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I've been poor. I mean the real kind of poor. Live in my car poor. Constantly hungry poor. No gas to move my home poor.

It's not something I'm proud of. I am proud that I turned it around though. And I did it with no education. I graduated high school (just barely) and have no formal education beyond that. I hear all the time that I am "the exception to the rule", but since I turned things around, I have mentored several young people, and helped them do the same. It takes hard work and perseverence, but it doesn't require an education.

I'll grant that an education can help, and that it often leads to more monetary wealth, but education does not have to determine whether you are poor or not. Motivation, and a willingness to teach yourself instead of relying on schools can be just as educational. I bring this up not to dispute what anyone is saying, but simply to point out that formal education (ie college, university, etc.) is not the only kind of education.

I own two successful businesses, I own my farm, and will be mortgage free in five years on my modest but new 1400sq ft house. I did that with hard work, and no education.

Dammit Stark! I really am happy that you've turned it round, truly I am, but posts like this have a horrible way of making me think about how I'm probably wasting my life.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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12-02-2012, 07:47 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(12-02-2012 06:47 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Dammit Stark! I really am happy that you've turned it round, truly I am, but posts like this have a horrible way of making me think about how I'm probably wasting my life.

I'm gonna respond to that, then brace myself for the onslaught of people telling me, "it's not that simple."

Whether you are wasting your life or not is 100% up to you. Is the way you are living making you feel like it's a waste? If it is, then make the decision to change it. If it isn't, then why should hearing about my life, or anyone elses make you feel otherwise. From what I know of you, you're a great guy. You're kind. And you're plenty smart. Changing the things you want to change about yourself really is as simple as making the decision and goin for it.

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12-02-2012, 07:53 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(12-02-2012 06:36 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I've been poor. I mean the real kind of poor. Live in my car poor. Constantly hungry poor. No gas to move my home poor.

Never been that poor.

(12-02-2012 06:36 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I own two successful businesses, I own my farm, and will be mortgage free in five years on my modest but new 1400sq ft house. I did that with hard work, and no education.

Some educate themselves. Big Grin

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12-02-2012, 08:00 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(12-02-2012 07:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Never been that poor.
It sucks. I don't recommend it. Undecided

Quote:Some educate themselves. Big Grin

I agree. I also think a lot more would if we started giving education the value it deserves, and realized that educating ones self is neither difficult nor of less value.

For the record (and we all know it, but sometimes ya gotta say it anyways) the education referred to in this debate up until a few posts ago was referring to formal education, whether that was stated specifically or not.

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12-02-2012, 08:10 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(12-02-2012 08:00 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I agree. I also think a lot more would if we started giving education the value it deserves, and realized that educating ones self is neither difficult nor of less value.

It's kinda like required. All education is self-education. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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12-02-2012, 08:16 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(12-02-2012 06:36 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I've been poor. I mean the real kind of poor. Live in my car poor. Constantly hungry poor. No gas to move my home poor.

It's not something I'm proud of. I am proud that I turned it around though. And I did it with no education. I graduated high school (just barely) and have no formal education beyond that. I hear all the time that I am "the exception to the rule", but since I turned things around, I have mentored several young people, and helped them do the same. It takes hard work and perseverence, but it doesn't require an education.

I'll grant that an education can help, and that it often leads to more monetary wealth, but education does not have to determine whether you are poor or not. Motivation, and a willingness to teach yourself instead of relying on schools can be just as educational. I bring this up not to dispute what anyone is saying, but simply to point out that formal education (ie college, university, etc.) is not the only kind of education.

I own two successful businesses, I own my farm, and will be mortgage free in five years on my modest but new 1400sq ft house. I did that with hard work, and no education.

Our family was so poor, had I not been born a boy ,I'd have had nothing to play with!!!Sad
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12-02-2012, 08:38 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(12-02-2012 07:47 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I'm gonna respond to that, then brace myself for the onslaught of people telling me, "it's not that simple."

Whether you are wasting your life or not is 100% up to you. Is the way you are living making you feel like it's a waste? If it is, then make the decision to change it. If it isn't, then why should hearing about my life, or anyone elses make you feel otherwise. From what I know of you, you're a great guy. You're kind. And you're plenty smart. Changing the things you want to change about yourself really is as simple as making the decision and goin for it.

It probably is that simple, just doesn't feel it at times. I've got two jobs and I'm starting at college so I'm probably not wasting it at the moment. I think it's still living with my parents and seeing no prospects of having the finances to move out or become overly independent make it feel like I'm going nowhere when maybe I am. Maybe I'm too passive and demotivated at times. Maybe I'm setting my sights too high for someone my age. I suppose only time will tell.

Thanks for the nice comments by the way Smile.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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13-02-2012, 09:29 AM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(12-02-2012 08:51 AM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  
(12-02-2012 08:14 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(12-02-2012 12:46 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Why are they poor?

I've said it half a dozen times. Because they are uneducated. And many times it's no fault of their own. Some school systems and parents just suck. How many 120+ IQ HS graduates are there in poverty? Probably none unless they are just plain lazy or #Occupiers.
BULLSHIT!

I know a friend that has 2 masters and couldn't buy a job. She is 55 years old. she has ended up working in a bar. She has her master deg. in engineering and I am not sure on the other one. It all has the to with Architectural building. She has 30 years experience yet still couldn't find a job. She's just to old for a company to hire. Your full of shit on education.


Your evidence is kind of irrelevant. Sure, an individual and any given time during a recession might not be able to find work in her field. Cry me a river. She works a bar now and if she's any good she probably takes home plenty of tips.

Underemployed =/= poverty stricken

As a whole, widespread poverty is a result of poor education.


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13-02-2012, 09:34 AM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(13-02-2012 09:29 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Underemployed =/= poverty stricken

As a whole, widespread poverty is a result of poor education.

Education is certainly a large factor, but there are others such as discrimination in hiring and pay inequity. There can also be massive changes due to new technologies; and while you can say that those versed in the old technology and not in the new suffer from an educational deficiency, it is one not of their own making.

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