Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-02-2012, 11:46 AM (This post was last modified: 10-02-2012 11:49 AM by germanyt.)
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(10-02-2012 11:40 AM)Zat Wrote:  
(10-02-2012 11:16 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I'll take what grants I qualify for...

and

Quote:brainwashed into thinking they are entitled to...

I rest my case.

germanyt, work on the arithmetic.

I was hoping to get through to you, but now I don't think I will ever be able to.

Can we agree to disagree on this one? Sad

Please. I didn't once say I felt entitled to grants. If they disappeared tomorrow I wouldn't complain about it. But as long as it exists I'm gonig to take advantage of it. Taxes that I pay are funding those federal grants and loans.

Oh and BTW, I believe the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system. The rich make much more use of public facilites and infrastructure and are taxed accordingly for it. For example, if I build a McDonalds at the end of a dead end road then my business is certainly responsible for the excess wear and tear to said road. The people that live on that road drive far less traffic down it and are less responsible for damage to it.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2012, 12:09 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(10-02-2012 11:46 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Please. I didn't once say I felt entitled to grants. ..... But as long as it exists I'm gonig to take advantage of it. Taxes that I pay are funding those federal grants and loans.

I thought I was done with this debate, germanyt, but I can't resist this one.

If you are not sure whether you are entitled to the grants, but take it anyway, then you are in danger of accepting a government handout. Big Grin

As far as your taxes paying for it, please do the arithmetic. You said in another thread that the grants will pay for 3 years of education? Are you sure you paid enough taxes to cover all of that, plus your share of other civic responsibilities?

If not, then -- government handout! Tongue
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2012, 12:19 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(10-02-2012 12:09 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(10-02-2012 11:46 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Please. I didn't once say I felt entitled to grants. ..... But as long as it exists I'm gonig to take advantage of it. Taxes that I pay are funding those federal grants and loans.

I thought I was done with this debate, germanyt, but I can't resist this one.

If you are not sure whether you are entitled to the grants, but take it anyway, then you are in danger of accepting a government handout. Big Grin

As far as your taxes paying for it, please do the arithmetic. You said in another thread that the grants will pay for 3 years of education? Are you sure you paid enough taxes to cover all of that, plus your share of other civic responsibilities?

If not, then -- government handout! Tongue

No, the G.I. Bill is paying for 3 years. It's an investment I made by paying 1200 dollars into the system (they don't do this anymore though). It's also a benefit provided by my employer (Navy). After the 3 years is up I'll use grants and loans to pay for the rest until I have at least a masters. I've already stated that I'm not anti-welfare. I support responsible use of the unemployment, Medicaid, and food stamp programs. I support it out of compassion though, not because it's good for the economy or society. I also realize that is an emotional and irrational position.

What you are suggesting is income equality. I do not feel that the rich should feel obligated to pay more taxes to support or prevent the lower class from descending into poverty. If they chose to elect officials that do feel so then that's on them.

I'll answer the thread title. Yes the government has the right to tax people and do what they wish with the revenue as long as the spending is approved by Congress. The Constitution gives Congres the power to levy taxes. But income equality is as bad for the economy and society as you think income desparity is.

And no, we don't owe each other anything.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2012, 12:26 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(10-02-2012 12:19 PM)germanyt Wrote:  What you are suggesting is income equality.

What I am suggesting is documented in the "Proposal for a new social contract" thread.

Read it before you tell me again what it is I am suggesting. Rolleyes
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2012, 12:47 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(10-02-2012 12:26 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(10-02-2012 12:19 PM)germanyt Wrote:  What you are suggesting is income equality.

What I am suggesting is documented in the "Proposal for a new social contract" thread.

Read it before you tell me again what it is I am suggesting. Rolleyes

Stopped reading at this line

Quote:The government is in charge of all the industries and infrastructure (without exception) required to provide basic human needs: food, clothing, housing, health, education, communication, transportation.


Our federal government can't run anything right. And you think it's a good idea for them to try and tackle these extrememly important industries? Look at the post office, social security, medicare, Amtrack, the public education system, etc.


God dammit I shouldn't have read anymore.

Quote:The basic human needs can be easily calculated by using scientific data on age-dependent calorie requirements, climate-dependent clothing and housing requirement, population-dependent health- and education-requirement and the necessary energy and raw-material production, as well as the necessary infrastructure in transportation and communication. It could be easily planned – and adapted, as conditions change - based on physiological, climatic and demographic data.

Quote:Nobody could be forced to participate in the ‘private sector’ of the economy, it would be strictly voluntary. If the private economy organizes itself to use a recognized common currency, then citizens could get ‘paid’ for their work in the private sector and use this money to purchase luxuries (products and services beyond basic needs) just as they do now.

So lazy fucks who do nothing get provided for by the hard work of others? How is a person supposed to build a successful business if 50% of the population decides to live off the government instead of participating in the private sector?

What you are advocating is worse than income equality. And worse than a welfare state. It's destruction of prosperity and opportunity by allowing everyone to slide by on the system. I'm no nationalist or patriot but that is one of the most un American things I've ever read.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2012, 12:58 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(10-02-2012 12:47 PM)germanyt Wrote:  I'm no nationalist or patriot but that is one of the most un American things I've ever read.

GT -not everyone is an American. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2012, 01:08 PM (This post was last modified: 10-02-2012 01:16 PM by Zat.)
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(10-02-2012 12:47 PM)germanyt Wrote:  that is one of the most un American things I've ever read.

Thank you, germanyt, for the compliment. Big Grin

Pity you have not finished reading the whole thread because many Americans agreed with my proposal (count the likes I got on it).

You absolutely do not understand the concept at all, you just flew off the handle at some trigger words.

Otherwise you would not have misstated the essence of the proposal so badly in your last post.

Maybe you try it again, reading every line with an open mind and then, hopefully, you would actually see what it is I indeed proposed.

Or not.

Ignorance, as they say, is bliss. Tongue
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2012, 01:10 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(10-02-2012 12:58 PM)kim Wrote:  
(10-02-2012 12:47 PM)germanyt Wrote:  I'm no nationalist or patriot but that is one of the most un American things I've ever read.

GT -not everyone is an American. Shy

I could see someone living in Somolia or Pakistan finding this idea appealing. But we have a pefectly good system of government in place now. Unfortunately partisan politics takes a stranglehold and the people end up getting the shaft for it. What we need are more educated voters. Like I said, education is the key to ending poverty. Not taxation or a semi communist economy.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2012, 01:14 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
PS. You seem to have skipped the following:

Quote:The time an average citizen will have to work in the Public Sector could be as low as 2-3 hours per workday. This minimal contribution can be accumulated in advance to provide for vacations and personal projects, but would not be transferable to make sure no person has a ‘free ride’. You don’t have to ‘save up’ for illness and retirement, because those are provided for by the excess safety buffer built into the system.

So who are the lazy fucks?

When EVERYBODY has to contribute to the basic needs?

Read on MacDuff! Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2012, 01:20 PM
RE: Do we have the right to tax people in order to help the poor?
(10-02-2012 01:14 PM)Zat Wrote:  PS. You seem to have skipped the following:

Quote:The time an average citizen will have to work in the Public Sector could be as low as 2-3 hours per workday. This minimal contribution can be accumulated in advance to provide for vacations and personal projects, but would not be transferable to make sure no person has a ‘free ride’. You don’t have to ‘save up’ for illness and retirement, because those are provided for by the excess safety buffer built into the system.

So who are the lazy fucks?

When EVERYBODY has to contribute to the basic needs?

Read on MacDuff! Big Grin


What happens when the cost of running the government requires more contribution? What about those that can't contribute? What happens when perhaps 50% or more of the population decides to live off of basic needs and isn't pumping money into the private sector. Small business would collapse under your plan and the country would descend into a poverty stricken, communist welfare state. But hey, at least we all have a change of clothes and food provided by our precious government.

Also, way to throw freedom and liberty out the window by forcing citizens to contribute in specific ways. Sounds a lot like a labor camp to me.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: