Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
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22-02-2013, 01:09 PM (This post was last modified: 22-02-2013 01:13 PM by Adenosis.)
RE: Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
(22-02-2013 05:37 AM)bemore Wrote:  I personally think in as little as 100 years we will see the first humanoid shaped robots. These will be controlled either by AI or by having a nervous system from a human being implanted into it. That could remove the need for food and water supplies. The robots wouldnt have to worry about sleep and if a cyborg crew is used then they could probably be put in stasis.

The ship itself could be a huge robot that might not need a crew. Not such a silly thought as we have the mars rover exploring right now as we speak.

The Hadron colliders around the world are getting more and more data every day, we may make discoveries that turn physics on its head, opening up new possibilites and making our current technology and energy propulsion systems look puny.

I understand where you are coming from muffs, however I would recommend going on youtube and watching some old clips of the BBC programme "tommorows world"... they tried to guess the future, they were all way off as we did more than they could of ever dreamed.

No water or food? How do you suppose those neurons and neuroglia continue to function properly absent sustenance?

Also if the brain didn't change then we would still require sleep. The functioning of the brain would get sloppy if it went without sleep for too long.

I understand where he's coming from as well, and it's a stupid position. Do you have any idea how many people would have said things were not possible that have come to pass?

At least you pointed out a potential problem. Oxygen would not be a problem. Water would be tricky, depending on the length of the trip. I wasn't assuming we pissed out 100% of what we drink, but the body retains a somewhat constant level of water. There is also sweat to be accounted for, which would transfer into air moisture which could be utilized. Not that that would be much, but it could contribute. We could have highly compressed tanks of water, or separated oxygen and hydrogen tanks, whatever is less space consuming.

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22-02-2013, 02:32 PM
RE: Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
So why does earmuffs think it will always take 22000 years to get to the closest star? Are we never going to be able to travel faster?

And even if it were to take longer than what we now consider a lifetime (70-80 years), why shouldn't it be possible to prolong our lives, both active, and through some type of cryogenics?

Or is he just saying travel beyond the inner planets is just stupid now (2013)?
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22-02-2013, 02:52 PM
RE: Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
(22-02-2013 02:32 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  So why does earmuffs think it will always take 22000 years to get to the closest star? Are we never going to be able to travel faster?

And even if it were to take longer than what we now consider a lifetime (70-80 years), why shouldn't it be possible to prolong our lives, both active, and through some type of cryogenics?

Or is he just saying travel beyond the inner planets is just stupid now (2013)?
I think he's just a hardcore pessimist.

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22-02-2013, 05:06 PM (This post was last modified: 22-02-2013 05:13 PM by DeepThought.)
RE: Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
This thread is about "Is it possible to travel to another star system" or "Do we have the technology"


Earmuffs goes all twitchy and neurotic when he sees anything space related and turns it into an economics rant - explaining to us how it's stupid and a massive waste of money - though we weren't even talking about that.

Also it's evident he didn't read anything about project orion. With nuclear propulsion it's definitely possible to reach 10% c. The capabilities of nuclear pulse propulsion surpass chemical systems by far!


Phaedrus: How much damage would launching from earth really do?
These bombs are in the kiloton range so they are tiny compared to bombs that destroy cities.
Detonating nuclear weapons isn't the same as having a faulty nuclear power plant where radio-isotopes linger around for centuries contaminating that site.
You can stand at hiroshima, ground zero with a radiation detector and radiation levels will not be greater than normal background levels.
With nukes - when they detonate the isotopes are immediately vaporised and dispersed into the atmosphere. If it was done in a remote place the damage might be minimal. Is that right?

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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22-02-2013, 05:21 PM
RE: Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
(22-02-2013 05:06 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  Earmuffs goes all twitchy and neurotic when he sees anything space related and turns it into an economics rant - explaining to us how it's stupid and a massive waste of money - though we weren't even talking about that.




Oh, cause the Earth is in debt somehow, to itself... And by extending our civilization to the stars, we will no longer be able to clear this debt to ourselves with a single massive asteroid impact.
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22-02-2013, 11:11 PM
Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
Why are we still speculating about escape velocity with nukes? Go read the space elevator thread. Surface launches are for chumps.

By the time we are even close to being prepared to travel outside this solar system I'd like to think we'd at least developed some form of orbital launch platform.

Meanwhile, lets work on the food/bio issue. What are we going to eat? Where will it come from? How can we make maximum use of our bio effluence? We basically need a mobile micro ecosystem to take us anywhere super distant, right?

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22-02-2013, 11:23 PM
RE: Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
(22-02-2013 11:11 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Why are we still speculating about escape velocity with nukes? Go read the space elevator thread. Surface launches are for chumps.

By the time we are even close to being prepared to travel outside this solar system I'd like to think we'd at least developed some form of orbital launch platform.

Meanwhile, lets work on the food/bio issue. What are we going to eat? Where will it come from? How can we make maximum use of our bio effluence? We basically need a mobile micro ecosystem to take us anywhere super distant, right?

Not only are we suppose to create a elevator to space (which is not yet possible), but then were suppose to cart this massive ship up the elevator?

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23-02-2013, 12:08 AM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2013 12:18 AM by Phaedrus.)
RE: Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
(22-02-2013 05:06 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  Phaedrus: How much damage would launching from earth really do?
These bombs are in the kiloton range so they are tiny compared to bombs that destroy cities.
Detonating nuclear weapons isn't the same as having a faulty nuclear power plant where radio-isotopes linger around for centuries contaminating that site.
You can stand at hiroshima, ground zero with a radiation detector and radiation levels will not be greater than normal background levels.
With nukes - when they detonate the isotopes are immediately vaporised and dispersed into the atmosphere. If it was done in a remote place the damage might be minimal. Is that right?

That is not correct. First, the Orion bombs would be in the 300 kiloton to 1 megaton range; 30 to 100 times the size of Hiroshima. Definitely in city killer territory. And a launch from the earth's surface would require at least dozens of detonations to clear the atmosphere.

The actual launch site will not be exceptionally radioactive after a few decades, no. But the fallout released into the atmosphere would be substantial, the equivalent of a decade's worth of nuclear testing in one five minute launch sequence. Wind and the earth's magnetic fields would carry this radiation all over the earth. It wouldn't be immediately fatal; but the nuclear testing in the 50s and 60s did cause potentially carcinogenic or teratogenic radiation levels as detected through the Baby Tooth project.

You could contain this fallout by launching near the poles. There the earth's magnetic field would pull the particles toward the pole, rather than spreading them all over the earth. The polar winds also tend to stay in the polar regions with only slow mixing at the boundaries, so global contamination would be lower. However, you'd be violating numerous international treaties and killing the polar bears and/or penguins.

Also, stratospheric nuclear detonations can create an EMP zone up to 2-3 thousand kilometers across. That's enough to shut down a third of North America, electronically.




So you can launch an Orion from earth. Just... You shouldn't unless we're about to be wiped out by alien invasion or a massive asteroid or something. Wink

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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23-02-2013, 12:18 AM
Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
(22-02-2013 11:23 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  
(22-02-2013 11:11 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Why are we still speculating about escape velocity with nukes? Go read the space elevator thread. Surface launches are for chumps.

By the time we are even close to being prepared to travel outside this solar system I'd like to think we'd at least developed some form of orbital launch platform.

Meanwhile, lets work on the food/bio issue. What are we going to eat? Where will it come from? How can we make maximum use of our bio effluence? We basically need a mobile micro ecosystem to take us anywhere super distant, right?

Not only are we suppose to create a elevator to space (which is not yet possible), but then were suppose to cart this massive ship up the elevator?

Yes. It's like the college prank where you dismantle the professor's car and reassemble it in his classroom!

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23-02-2013, 09:39 PM
RE: Do we have the "stuff" to travel beyond our solar system?
(23-02-2013 12:08 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  stratospheric nuclear detonations can create an EMP zone up to 2-3 thousand kilometers across. That's enough to shut down a third of North America, electronically.
Some people have found a simple cost effective way to protect the grid from EMP.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/06/few-tho...stors.html


Thanks, I assumed the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were much bigger. I suppose we should be glad those nukes were clumsy and innefficient. These days we could build something much more devastating into something much lighter and smaller.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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