Do we owe each other anything?
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26-10-2011, 02:10 PM
RE: Do we owe each other anything?
(26-10-2011 01:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(24-10-2011 07:38 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  For illustration purposes, think about the following thought experiment:

What if I were walking on the bank of a river and saw a child drowning, feet away from a healthy young man fishing in a boat? What if I saw that this young man ignored the child’s screams for help and kept on fishing? What if, when I asked him to save the kid, he refused? I know that this young man is not blind, deaf, or otherwise handicapped, he is a good swimmer and able to rescue the child; he merely chooses to exercise his ‘right’ not to act on my pity. If for some reason I couldn’t save the child (I couldn’t swim, or whatever), and if I carried a gun, would I threaten the man in the boat?

If he refused to help, I'd put a few bullets in his boat and then after he bails out tell him that the child better be in his arms when he gets to shore. That'd probably work more often than not.

Ha -I thought about shooting the boat, too. Smile
Confused ... but then if the guy couldn't swim, I would end up watching two people drown.

I have a friend (S) who was telling me (complaining) that another mutual friend (D) is was loser and his reasoning was that the guy couldn't take care of himself. I asked him to explain because the D seemed to do fairly alright.
S said that D invites him over for drinks & entertainment, etc.,. D knows that it will be so late by the time they are finished partying that S will have to stay over. This is how S has decided that D is a loser: D has never provided a guest bed, though he knows he will someday have guests.
Huh
Ideology. Crazy, huh?
Tongue

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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26-10-2011, 02:49 PM
 
RE: Do we owe each other anything?
(26-10-2011 12:50 PM)kim Wrote:  You're not asking for too much, are you?

kim, I answered your questions in the thread I linked to in the OP.

GirlyMan, I knew I could count on you to cut the Gordian knot Big Grin
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26-10-2011, 11:16 PM
RE: Do we owe each other anything?
(24-10-2011 07:38 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  Ayn Rand categorically declared: NO!

Her ethics can be summarized briefly as follows:

Quote:'Laissez faire' Capitalism is the only ethical social system imaginable. Who could argue with the basic ethical principle that no human being has the right to force another human being to do anything against his own (perceived) self interest. If we allow a human being to initiate force against another, to force him to act against his interests, then we have approved of dictatorships of the worst kind.

I do not believe that statement for a second.

Because I have "my Gwynnies (and the willful reinterpretation of Godel's Incompleteness)"

I can honestly say - you complete me. Even you... Alf... Big Grin

"Debt" is a manufactured ethos enabled by power structure... Back of the dollar (what?) says federal reserve (what?).

Kant talks about morality and duty. I go Kant. Tongue

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27-10-2011, 11:41 AM
RE: Do we owe each other anything?
Quote:'Laissez faire' Capitalism is the only ethical social system imaginable. Who could argue with the basic ethical principle that no human being has the right to force another human being to do anything against his own (perceived) self interest. If we allow a human being to initiate force against another, to force him to act against his interests, then we have approved of dictatorships of the worst kind.

There are so many things wrong with that statement other than moral and ethical dilemmas.

However, given the question, I am with girlyman, I would sink his boat.
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29-10-2011, 01:08 PM
RE: Do we owe each other anything?
(24-10-2011 07:38 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  (for those who disagree about saving the child, I “recommend suicide at their earliest convenience” to quote Konrad Lorenz. It would save us the trouble of putting them out of our misery).

Yeah, sure... jump in the river, save the kid, return to mother. Whose piss-poor parenting skills invert in her self-absorbed mind, she calls the cops... next thing I know, I'm in cell block D with a chomo rap and a shank in my sock thinking, that fucking Alf! Big Grin

You definitely do the thinking, but sometimes I wonder what planet you live on. I can't imagine you being poor like me and talking like this. The poor do not have rights in America, and if you think otherwise; maybe you have been driving the mean streets, but you got the radio on...

Do you even realize this elitist thinking is religious nonsense? Don't you find that there are inconsistencies in this kinda logic? I'm a government subsidized certified nut bag, the kinda thing you feel is your social obligation - and you say, look at me! I'm Joe Responsibility, your moral standard!

As long as the animals stay in the zoo, eh, Joe? Tongue

The thing that irks me, is that I'm "justice/warrior clan" like you; your passions align, but the inconsistencies remain. I find it morally ambiguous to state "I was raised to abhor killing" as if it were a badge of honor - it's not. it's elitist snobbery... well, not so much on the individual level - I don't know you personally - but as a generalization. I don't have a gun, 'cause i'd shoot somebody it the head with it. That's the utility the handgun was designed for - it has no other purpose.

Left turn on red? ba-BLAM! Big Grin

No moral ambiguity whatsoever. Know why? Morality is basic, evolved functionality. It is the responsibility of the judicators to streamline the herd for maximum survivability, doncha know? A guy who begins a phrase with a "I think we" is supposed to know this stuff... Big Grin

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29-10-2011, 01:21 PM
 
RE: Do we owe each other anything?
(29-10-2011 01:08 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  You definitely do the thinking, but sometimes I wonder what planet you live on.

Malmac.

Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin
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29-10-2011, 01:49 PM
RE: Do we owe each other anything?
Dude, just shipping and handling. We'll call it even after that.
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29-10-2011, 01:58 PM
 
RE: Do we owe each other anything?
(29-10-2011 01:08 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I can't imagine you being poor like me and talking like this.

FYI: I am a 71 year old retired Canadian, living on government pension, way under the poverty line. What has that got to do with anything? Huh
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31-10-2011, 11:40 AM
RE: Do we owe each other anything?
(29-10-2011 01:58 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(29-10-2011 01:08 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I can't imagine you being poor like me and talking like this.

FYI: I am a 71 year old retired Canadian, living on government pension, way under the poverty line. What has that got to do with anything? Huh

That wasn't me, that was my evil twin. I try to keep him away from the keyboard...

Seems there was 4 minds simulated by this stupid brain. Big Grin

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01-11-2011, 03:41 PM
RE: Do we owe each other anything?
Ah what would I do? Easy. I'd save the kid then sink the fools boat. I he could swim I'd wait till he gets to shore, shoot him in the foot and throw him back in the water. If he couldn't swim...not my problem. Let him drown. I am the anti hero. Screw morality. Do what is right and what you feel.

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