Do you beleive in the death penalty?
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02-04-2017, 06:57 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
On one hand I tend to think that people like Ted Bundy should be put to death. Yes, I know he was. What I mean is that there is no doubt that Bundy was a serial killer with no remorse and would certainly kill again if given the chance...he did escape incarceration twice (iirc).

But then I look at the fact that obviously the death penalty is not a deterrent to others who may do the same things.

On an island somewhere where they have to provide everything they can for their own survival...that works for me. Keep them away from potential victims. If they lessen their own numbers then there are fewer to watch and house.

DNA has exonerated too many people on death row to think that the justice system doesn't make mistakes. I am still a little on the fence when it comes to those where there is no doubt, who have committed multiple heinous crimes, and who have no remorse and are likely to reoffend if given the chance.

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02-04-2017, 07:17 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(02-04-2017 06:57 AM)Anjele Wrote:  What I mean is that there is no doubt that Bundy was a serial killer with no remorse and would certainly kill again if given the chance...he did escape incarceration twice (iirc).

He did escape when he was still under investigation. He didn't escape once his case was made and he was up for trial. The security level is different in a sherif's department and a real jail.

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02-04-2017, 07:31 AM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2017 08:31 AM by Anjele.)
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(02-04-2017 07:17 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 06:57 AM)Anjele Wrote:  What I mean is that there is no doubt that Bundy was a serial killer with no remorse and would certainly kill again if given the chance...he did escape incarceration twice (iirc).

He did escape when he was still under investigation. He didn't escape once his case was made and he was up for trial. The security level is different in a sherif's department and a real jail.

A sheriff's department has a jail...I think you mean there is a difference between jail and prison.

Bundy was smart and I don't doubt that there would have been a chance of his escaping from custody. He did escape from different levels of incarceration.

https://www.thoughtco.com/ted-bundy-gets-caught-973179

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02-04-2017, 08:15 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
I sense this sad horse continues to be beat with the perception that the primary purpose of the death penalty to a offer society an effective deterrent to others. It's not.

I believe any deterrence reaction is only secondary to the public witnessing one enduring the legally enacted consequences for ones' actions.

If the DP is too harsh for you, you do have the freedom to relocate to a state where there are more like minded folk and do not go with that degree of punishment. (sorta like it's a good reason not to live in a place where they cut chit off if you are prosecuted).

Problem I see is as long as that murderer is alive, there is always that possibility they can escape, pardon out, or WTF 25 years = life?? / and may return to my state and repeat the heinous deed just one more time.

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02-04-2017, 08:27 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
If it was your cousin, your best friend, your lover, your family member on death row, and you were pretty goddamn sure they didn't do it but couldn't prove it, would you still be OK with the death penalty? Tough shit for them right?

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02-04-2017, 08:32 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
The death penalty is vile.
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02-04-2017, 09:01 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(02-04-2017 07:31 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Bundy was smart and I don't doubt that there would have been a chance of his escaping from custody. He did escape from different levels of incarceration.

But not during the 11 years leading up to his trial and execution. He wasn't in high security as of yet when he escaped. Only under investigation.

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02-04-2017, 09:04 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(02-04-2017 09:01 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 07:31 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Bundy was smart and I don't doubt that there would have been a chance of his escaping from custody. He did escape from different levels of incarceration.

But not during the 11 years leading up to his trial and execution. He wasn't in high security as of yet when he escaped. Only under investigation.

*from the link

Bundy is Charged With the Murder of Campbell

Bundy went to trial for attempted kidnapping DaRonch in February 1976 and after waiving his right to a jury trial, he was found guilty and sentenced to 15 years in prison. During this time police were investigating links to Bundy and the Colorado murders.

According to his credit card statements he was in the area where several women vanished in early 1975. In October 1976 Bundy was charged with the murder of Caryn Campbell.

Bundy was extradited from the Utah prison to Colorado for the trial. Serving as his own lawyer allowed him to appear in court without leg irons plus gave him an opportunity to move freely from the courtroom to the law library inside the courthouse.

In an interview, while in the role as his own attorney, Bundy said, "More than ever, I am convinced of my own innocence." In June 1977 during a pre-trial hearing he escaped by jumping out of the law library window. He was captured a week later.

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02-04-2017, 09:15 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(02-04-2017 09:04 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Bundy was extradited from the Utah prison to Colorado for the trial. Serving as his own lawyer allowed him to appear in court without leg irons plus gave him an opportunity to move freely from the courtroom to the law library inside the courthouse.

In an interview, while in the role as his own attorney, Bundy said, "More than ever, I am convinced of my own innocence." In June 1977 during a pre-trial hearing he escaped by jumping out of the law library window. He was captured a week later.

And there you got your reason for him escaping. The authorities cutting him slack. After 1978, they weren't as lenient.

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02-04-2017, 09:37 AM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2017 09:58 AM by John Derderian.)
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(02-04-2017 08:15 AM)BackSlider Wrote:  I sense this sad horse continues to be beat with the perception that the primary purpose of the death penalty to a offer society an effective deterrent to others. It's not.
Not in my perception. I think the primary purpose is revenge. Deterrence is a rationalization used to justify it.

(02-04-2017 08:15 AM)BackSlider Wrote:  If the DP is too harsh for you, you do have the freedom to relocate to a state where there are more like minded folk and do not go with that degree of punishment. (sorta like it's a good reason not to live in a place where they cut chit off if you are prosecuted).
Love it or leave it? Another alternative is to try to change it, by speaking up or voting or other means.

(02-04-2017 08:15 AM)BackSlider Wrote:  Problem I see is as long as that murderer is alive, there is always that possibility they can escape, pardon out, or WTF 25 years = life?? / and may return to my state and repeat the heinous deed just one more time.
Balance this against the possibility that they may have been convicted wrongly, which can't be rectified after execution. This argument works only if you think that (a) there are more instances of convicted killers escaping to kill again than there are of people wrongly convicted of murder, or (b) the lives of wrongly convicted people are less important than those of the later murder victims. Otherwise, this consideration--minimizing the number of innocent lives lost--leads to the opposite conclusion.
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