Do you beleive in the death penalty?
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03-04-2017, 09:53 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
I think it's too risky since people are often wrongfully convicted. I think that there is no argument that can convince me that it's worth possibly killing an innocent person in order to justify the sense of revenge and justice.

I get it, though. I get why people want and need the death penalty. Not from personal experience, though. Perhaps that might sway me in the other direction were I to be confronted with that reality myself. I don't know.
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03-04-2017, 10:41 AM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2017 10:49 AM by Deidre32.)
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(02-04-2017 09:21 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Doesn't the 'eye for an eye' concept come from the Bible you follow? The punishment should fit the crime. Or is it acceptable to pick and choose the verses that speak to you?

Why are you attacking me? And no, the Bible doesn't teach eye for an eye, at least not in the NT. But, I'm not a fundamentalist, my faith isn't wrapped up in taking all of the Bible literally.

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03-04-2017, 10:43 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(02-04-2017 09:05 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  I'm against the death penalty. I feel that there are innocent people in jail, who could be wrongfully put to death. I also don't believe it is humane for the person being put to death or the person expected to carry it out. Just not a believer in ''eye for an eye,'' because it really doesn't change anything, and as far as I know, doesn't deter crime. So, all around, it seems like the wrong method of ''punishment,'' imo.

I agree 100 with all of that! Smile
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03-04-2017, 10:44 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(03-04-2017 08:47 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 08:15 AM)BackSlider Wrote:  I believe any deterrence reaction is only secondary to the public witnessing one enduring the legally enacted consequences for ones' actions.

What exactly is the value of the bolded phrase, other than deterrence? I see absolutely nothing. It's just deterrence expressed in different words.
#1. Death is a consequence first. Not to be a sideshow deturrance lessson for the public.

#2. The perpetrator set those consequences in motion for his actions.

You have to be odd to be #1.
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03-04-2017, 10:52 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(03-04-2017 10:44 AM)BackSlider Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 08:47 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  What exactly is the value of the bolded phrase, other than deterrence? I see absolutely nothing. It's just deterrence expressed in different words.
#1. Death is a consequence first. Not to be a sideshow deturrance lessson for the public.

#2. The perpetrator set those consequences in motion for his actions.

If it's not a lesson for the public, then what difference does it make whether or not the public "witnesses" it (this was part of your bolded claim)?

And how does any of this mean anything in the cases where the "perpetrator" happens to be innocent? You seem to be pretending that such cases don't exist, but they do. You have no problem with executing innocent people?
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03-04-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(03-04-2017 10:41 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 09:21 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Doesn't the 'eye for an eye' concept come from the Bible you follow? The punishment should fit the crime. Or is it acceptable to pick and choose the verses that speak to you?

Why are you attacking me? And no, the Bible doesn't teach eye for an eye, at least not in the NT. But, I'm not a fundamentalist, my faith isn't wrapped up in taking all of the Bible literally.

If asking a couple of questions for clarification is an attack.

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03-04-2017, 04:29 PM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(03-04-2017 10:52 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 10:44 AM)BackSlider Wrote:  #1. Death is a consequence first. Not to be a sideshow deterrence lesson for the public.

#2. The perpetrator set those consequences in motion for his actions.

If it's not a lesson for the public, then what difference does it make whether or not the public "witnesses" it (this was part of your bolded claim)?

And how does any of this mean anything in the cases where the "perpetrator" happens to be innocent? You seem to be pretending that such cases don't exist, but they do. You have no problem with executing innocent people?

Some folks have learned you can't believe everything you are told. Dodgy Having eye witnesses validates the truth of the claim. Kinda like attending a funeral viewing; helps give closure to some that there is no doubt what the bare knuckle truth is. Sad

Mercy, You can stop thinking I have no concern for an innocent person meeting his final fate wrongly.
My heels are dug in on the cases where there is zero doubt of ones guilt. And those are out there. Like having a parking lot video showing "the act" in progress.

Many cases are slam dunk and just shouldn't drag on for decades or provide a life of incarceration when the punishment has ruled to end it.

You have to be odd to be #1.
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03-04-2017, 04:47 PM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(03-04-2017 04:29 PM)BackSlider Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 10:52 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  If it's not a lesson for the public, then what difference does it make whether or not the public "witnesses" it (this was part of your bolded claim)?

And how does any of this mean anything in the cases where the "perpetrator" happens to be innocent? You seem to be pretending that such cases don't exist, but they do. You have no problem with executing innocent people?

Some folks have learned you can't believe everything you are told. Dodgy Having eye witnesses validates the truth of the claim. Kinda like attending a funeral viewing; helps give closure to some that there is no doubt what the bare knuckle truth is. Sad

Mercy, You can stop thinking I have no concern for an innocent person meeting his final fate wrongly.
My heels are dug in on the cases where there is zero doubt of ones guilt. And those are out there. Like having a parking lot video showing "the act" in progress.

Many cases are slam dunk and just shouldn't drag on for decades or provide a life of incarceration when the punishment has ruled to end it.

I would be willing to bet that the number of such cases is quite small. In most cases, there is some doubt. How much doubt are you willing to allow? Where do you draw the line? I guarantee that no matter where you draw it, some innocent people are going to end up on the wrong side of it. All you need to do is prevent the criminal from repeating his crime. Life without parole in a secure prison accomplishes that without the risk of executing an innocent person. There is no need for the state to lower itself to the same level of barbarity as the criminal. I would say there is a need not to do that. We should be better than the worst elements in our society. Moral high ground and all that. If killing is wrong, it's wrong no matter who does it.
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03-04-2017, 05:59 PM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
Motherfucker on an atheist board for how long decides to word the question "do you believe?" Dodgy

I'll tell you what I cannot believe, that any person of intelligence who has been in and through the system would support the death penalty.

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04-04-2017, 06:21 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(02-04-2017 09:05 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  I'm against the death penalty. I feel that there are innocent people in jail, who could be wrongfully put to death.

Not in Australia since 1966—when we hanged killer Ronald Ryan.

Quote:Just not a believer in ''eye for an eye,'' because it really doesn't change anything, and as far as I know, doesn't deter crime. So, all around, it seems like the wrong method of ''punishment,'' imo.

One thing the death penalty does "change" is the possibility of a released murderer killing again. In Australia, 44.3% of jailed criminals recidivate within two years of their release.

A study of 894 Western Australian males arrested for homicide offences during the period 1984-2005, and subsequently released from prison, found that 177 (19.8%) of the 894 were subsequently re-arrested for another grave offence (any violent offence including breaking into a dwelling) by the end of the follow-up time—December 31, 2005. Among these 177 men, 13 (7.3%) were in fact re-arrested for another homicide offence. [Broadhurst, R. and Maller, R., ANU.]

Put another way, that indicates that 13 innocent people were needlessly murdered by individuals considered by "the system" to have been rehabilitated and fit to return to society. If those individuals had been executed, those lives would've been spared. And this statistic—rather than purely emotive ones—is one of the reasons I support the death penalty. During that 21-year period, no individual charged with homicide was executed in Australia—although eight so charged were released after their convictions were overturned on appeal.

I therefore disagree with 18th century English jurist William Blackstone who famously said, "Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer". [Commentaries on the Laws of England ]

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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