Do you beleive in the death penalty?
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31-03-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(31-03-2017 11:02 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 11:00 AM)tomilay Wrote:  I don't like it because it's irreversible and the potential to use it on innocent people. It is also more likely to be applied in a biased way to people of color.

I wouldn't even take color as the major determining fact. The most common denominator seems to be poverty and being unable to get represantation being worth it's name.

Is there even one rich person on death row?

Granted, we've come some ways from when it was guaranteed death for black defendants falsely accused by whites, but blacks are still more likely to pay the ultimate price given similar circumstances. Poverty too is definitely a factor.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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31-03-2017, 11:46 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
Isn't "people of color" in itself a racist term? Lol.
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31-03-2017, 11:47 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
I'm against it for many of the reasons others have already given here: it's never been shown to be a deterrent, it's simply revenge, it's often applied mistakenly or in a biased manner, it's actually more expensive than incarceration, etc. I'd add one more: its effect on society. I think it diminishes all of us. And I think it normalizes the idea of simply killing people as a solution to problems. I think it makes us more comfortable with accepting this "easy" solution in other areas as well.
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31-03-2017, 11:57 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
Yes, I favour the death penalty for specific crimes supported by incontrovertible evidence, which should notably exclude DNA testing. Recently in Melbourne, we had a bloke go on a driving rampage through a crowded city mall, in the middle of the day, and killed five people, including a 3-month-old baby. He also put another 13 people into hospital with critical injuries.

The killer driver was already wanted over a string of dangerous driving charges when he was freed by a bail justice days before the Bourke Street massacre. Court documents revealed he had outstanding warrants for more than 20 charges for a string of alleged offending between April last year and January this year. He was also facing a new charge of the attempted murder of his brother earlier the same day.

So we have upwards of 1,000 verified witnesses confirming the bloke's identity, and his trail of murderous destruction. He'll face court—at a massive cost to taxpayers—and most likely get a mandatory 30-year "life" sentence. At current detention costing, the taxpayer will be paying around $100,000 every year to house and feed this killer, or $3million in total.

In my opinion, there are no grounds whatsoever for not executing this bastard. There is zero chance that a career criminal and mass-murderer like this will ever be rehabilitated, and he'll be a needless financial drain on the public purse for the rest of his life.

—It should also be noted that 32 of the fifty US states can still impose the death penalty, primarily by lethal injection or electrocution. (Oklahoma statutes still optionally allow a firing squad as a means of execution.)

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31-03-2017, 12:11 PM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(31-03-2017 11:46 AM)EvieTheTurtle Wrote:  Isn't "people of color" in itself a racist term? Lol.

In current usage no. If anything it's PC. Like how racists would rather refer to themselves as opponents of open borders.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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31-03-2017, 12:12 PM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(31-03-2017 11:57 AM)SYZ Wrote:  The killer driver was already wanted over a string of dangerous driving charges when he was freed by a bail justice days before the Bourke Street massacre. Court documents revealed he had outstanding warrants for more than 20 charges for a string of alleged offending between April last year and January this year. He was also facing a new charge of the attempted murder of his brother earlier the same day.

We had nearly the same incidence a couple of years ago. Bloke drove into crowds in a busy city center on a sunny saturday when everyone was enjoying their day off. Killed three and wounded a lot more, far as I remember.

He had his trial, got life, which, in Europe, usually means a stretch of 20 to 25. In this case followed by security custody for an indefinite time. That's reserved for serial offenders or highly dangerous persons, who can only hope for release when a jury of highly qualified psychiatrists and criminal experts agree that he's no longer a danger to the public.

But there's still another aspect to that case. Two experts were examining the offender for his mental state. They couldn't agree if he suffered from a schizophrenic episode, but he's got a history of mental illness. So the case went on appeal. If he were to be found to be not responsible for what he did, he still wouldn't be released to the public. The only difference being that it would be in a closed mental facility instead of prison.

I like that just fine about our justice system. It isn't irreversible should the facts point in a different direction.
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31-03-2017, 12:12 PM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(31-03-2017 11:16 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Granted, we've come some ways from when it was guaranteed death for black defendants falsely accused by whites, but blacks are still more likely to pay the ultimate price given similar circumstances. Poverty too is definitely a factor.


Not so—there have been 5 times more whites executed in the last 40 years. Since 1976, the percentages of blacks executed is 15.3% of the aggregated criminal total, and 75.6% for whites, with 9.9% for Hispanics and others. [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) "Death Row USA (July 1, 2016)"]

Approximately 12–13% of the US population is African-American, but they make up 35% of jail inmates (as of 2014).

—Yours is a common misconception, unsupported by any data.

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31-03-2017, 12:18 PM (This post was last modified: 31-03-2017 12:50 PM by adey67.)
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
Given the maggot infested food and uber violence in U.S. prisons tbh the death penalty seems like a breeze. But seriously, absolutely no to the death penalty its pure vindictiveness and nothing to do with justice. Shame rocket isn't here as he could give us a first hand understanding of what its like to be at the sharp end of the U.S. justice system, sadly he was very badly slated here recently and is taking a break. ( although I did not agree 100% with his assessment of the situation)
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31-03-2017, 12:19 PM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(31-03-2017 12:12 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 11:16 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Granted, we've come some ways from when it was guaranteed death for black defendants falsely accused by whites, but blacks are still more likely to pay the ultimate price given similar circumstances. Poverty too is definitely a factor.


Not so—there have been 5 times more whites executed in the last 40 years. Since 1976, the percentages of blacks executed is 15.3% of the aggregated criminal total, and 75.6% for whites, with 9.9% for Hispanics and others. [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) "Death Row USA (July 1, 2016)"]

Approximately 12–13% of the US population is African-American, but they make up 35% of jail inmates (as of 2014).

—Yours is a common misconception, unsupported by any data.


Actually it is not a misconception and is highly supported by many studies. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/race-and-death-penalty

You have a horrible history on this forum of bigoted and racist sentiments, might want to reevaluate that.

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31-03-2017, 12:40 PM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(31-03-2017 12:19 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 12:12 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Not so—there have been 5 times more whites executed in the last 40 years. Since 1976, the percentages of blacks executed is 15.3% of the aggregated criminal total, and 75.6% for whites, with 9.9% for Hispanics and others. [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) "Death Row USA (July 1, 2016)"]

Approximately 12–13% of the US population is African-American, but they make up 35% of jail inmates (as of 2014).

—Yours is a common misconception, unsupported by any data.


Actually it is not a misconception and is highly supported by many studies. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/race-and-death-penalty

You have a horrible history on this forum of bigoted and racist sentiments, might want to reevaluate that.

This image from a study in Pensylvannia provides a stark demonstration of what being a black defendant can mean when it comes to death sentencing. Juries consider it worse than "causing great harm, fear or pain", "murder with multiple stab wounds", "murder with another felony".

[Image: fig3.gif]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-pe...es#Study 1

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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