Do you beleive in the death penalty?
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01-04-2017, 03:38 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(01-04-2017 02:55 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Tl;dr version - Templar's bad.
And with Nazi theme in DA II - final solution, called there tranquil solution.
.

Wink

Well, sometimes I just need to kill 2 hours with a nice long expository post. Tongue

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01-04-2017, 03:40 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(31-03-2017 10:56 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I am a fan of the Norwegian example, Anders Behring Breivik is not in a hellhole for the rest of his life but the average Norwegian convict has a much lower recidivism rate than our Eye for an Eye system of revenge. Overall for societies benefit it's better to not extract every ounce of vengeance on the few people we know beyond a shadow of a doubt did the horrible thing.

That's the usual European procedure. I saw many people go on and on about Brejvik only getting 20 years. What they all missed is that Brejvik will never walk the streets again. 20 years, in Norway, is the maximum sentence. But there are provisions for that. If a convict is considered a clear and present danger to the public, he's taken into protective custody after serving his stretch. For an indefinite time that can well be till the end of his days.

It's also remarkable that not even the victims or their families clamoured for harder punishment. The whole society handled the attack with dignity and in a level headed way.

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01-04-2017, 03:54 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
I'm against it, the main reason is that I find unacceptable the idea that somebody who is innocent can be put to death.
We know how it works : the more horrible the crime is, the crazier the media get, and the more revengeful people get, they want somebody to be punished and are disregardant of how hasty the trial can get and how little proof there is against someone, as long as somebody get punished...
So death penalty means that sooner or later somebody who is innocent will be put to death.
Of course, I also can also get that revengeful feeling after a murderer is caught on a horrible crime, but I don't want it to dictate decisions such as deciding on the life of people.

Also, I hate giving as much power to the state, the state should not have the right to kill people. The role (well "supposed role") of the state is to protect people, so as long as the murderer is caught and put to jail he won't repeat the crime, so executing him doesn't bring more protection to the population. And in my opinion, the idea that death penalty is a so big threat that it limits the number of crime is wrong : there are as much crime (and sometimes more) in countries where the death penalty is applied. So I see no justification to it.
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01-04-2017, 03:55 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(01-04-2017 03:38 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 02:55 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Tl;dr version - Templar's bad.
And with Nazi theme in DA II - final solution, called there tranquil solution.
.

Wink

Well, sometimes I just need to kill 2 hours with a nice long expository post. Tongue

I have similar urges when it came to history. I prefer to recommend books though, using just little snippets - what is written and what is my take on what was written are different things so it is best when everyone will judge for himself.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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01-04-2017, 03:59 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(01-04-2017 03:40 AM)abaris Wrote:  The whole society handled the attack with dignity and in a level headed way.

Who'd a thunk that the descendants of the Vikings would turn out to be the only fuckers in the wide world who can actually make a reasonable claim to be a society of sane human beings.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-04-2017, 04:18 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(01-04-2017 03:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 03:40 AM)abaris Wrote:  The whole society handled the attack with dignity and in a level headed way.

Who'd a thunk that the descendants of the Vikings would turn out to be the only fuckers in the wide world who can actually make a reasonable claim to be a society of sane human beings.

Well, they were smart enough to not actually wear helmets with horns (a.k.a. obvious parts to grab on to). So they're at least smarter than the epic bards gave them credit for. Tongue




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01-04-2017, 04:19 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(01-04-2017 03:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  Who'd a thunk that the descendants of the Vikings would turn out to be the only fuckers in the wide world who can actually make a reasonable claim to be a society of sane human beings.

You know, most of Europe reacts in a similar fashion. In Germany there was the case of Gladbeck. It was back in 1988, but I still remember it like it happened yesterday. I won't go into details, but they make for an interesting read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladbeck_hostage_crisis

In short, two bank robbers took hostages and killed a few persons. What made this case remarkable was how the press reacted. Virtually the whole thing was televised, complete with interviews with the criminals and in some instances reporters acted more or less as accessories.

It was an all around disaster. The criminals are still behind barrs. One of them might be released this year, the other one is still considered dangerous and will be kept for years to come.

There have been a few clamouring for death, but these were the usual suspects. But society was content with them serving their stretch.

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01-04-2017, 04:39 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
Life without parole. I used to think it'd be acceptable to execute murders-for-hire and murders which occurred during child molestation, but the imperfections in our system have changed my mind.

Life without parole, preferably on a prison island where the inmates must raise their own food, maintain their own housing, etc.

As for lobotomizing convicts, I don't see how that's any better than the death penalty. It suffers the same defect of being irreversible, first. On top of that, I'm not so sure that a convict so punished would have his violent tendencies removed.
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01-04-2017, 07:10 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(01-04-2017 04:39 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Life without parole. I used to think it'd be acceptable to execute murders-for-hire and murders which occurred during child molestation, but the imperfections in our system have changed my mind.

Life without parole, preferably on a prison island where the inmates must raise their own food, maintain their own housing, etc.

As for lobotomizing convicts, I don't see how that's any better than the death penalty. It suffers the same defect of being irreversible, first. On top of that, I'm not so sure that a convict so punished would have his violent tendencies removed.

People seem to overlook that emotions can so often cloud our judgment, and thus any form of "retributive justice" can easily make a system more likely to be corrupt.

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01-04-2017, 07:16 AM
RE: Do you beleive in the death penalty?
(01-04-2017 07:10 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 04:39 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Life without parole. I used to think it'd be acceptable to execute murders-for-hire and murders which occurred during child molestation, but the imperfections in our system have changed my mind.

Life without parole, preferably on a prison island where the inmates must raise their own food, maintain their own housing, etc.

As for lobotomizing convicts, I don't see how that's any better than the death penalty. It suffers the same defect of being irreversible, first. On top of that, I'm not so sure that a convict so punished would have his violent tendencies removed.

People seem to overlook that emotions can so often cloud our judgment, and thus any form of "retributive justice" can easily make a system more likely to be corrupt.

Exactly. I did not start rethinking my stance on the death penalty until I came to understand that my support for it was largely emotional.

Now, put those emotions in the mind of the judge hearing the case ...
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