Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
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06-09-2011, 11:01 AM
RE: Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
(03-09-2011 06:14 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(02-09-2011 03:10 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  I don't find your argument compelling so far.

PS.

I find it significant that the only words you wrote in ALL CAPITALS, in all your posts, are in the following sentence:

Quote:But now this guy is going to be in jail for 50 years AT MY EXPENSES and everyone else's.

@Lwio: Brilliant summary -- concise, precise, convincing.

First of all, you didn't answer my question, which was: how did I misrepresent your posts? Since you made it a point of pressing me in answering ALL your points earlier, I'm going to pressure you into answering this one, thank you.
Second, as for the phrase I emphasized... what's your point?

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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06-09-2011, 11:12 AM
 
RE: Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
(06-09-2011 11:01 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  First of all, you didn't answer my question, which was: how did I misrepresent your posts? Since you made it a point of pressing me in answering ALL your points earlier, I'm going to pressure you into answering this one, thank you.
Second, as for the phrase I emphasized... what's your point?

I advised caution, moderation, flexibility, the exact opposite of extreme, uncorrectable actions (like executions).

You suggested that I wanted extremes: "frozen solid into complete inactivity", "since we may make such mistake, we don't send anybody to jail? Odd logic.".

Review your posts, you will see.

I call it misrepresentation.

Honestly, since you suggested that death-row prisoners should be used for medical experiments and as crash-test dummies, I do not wish to continue our conversation on this subject.

I hope you will understand.
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06-09-2011, 11:19 AM
RE: Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
(06-09-2011 11:12 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(06-09-2011 11:01 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  First of all, you didn't answer my question, which was: how did I misrepresent your posts? Since you made it a point of pressing me in answering ALL your points earlier, I'm going to pressure you into answering this one, thank you.
Second, as for the phrase I emphasized... what's your point?

I advised caution, moderation, flexibility, the exact opposite of extreme, uncorrectable actions (like executions).

You suggested that I wanted extremes: "frozen in inaction", etc. Review your posts, you will see.

I call it misrepresentation.
I called for moderation and flexibility too in the application of the death penalty. But reading your posts, how can you possibly say it is a representation on my part to say that your position is that because the death penalty is, to quote your words an "uncorrectable action", it shouldn't be applied at all? There's no misrepresentation there. That is your position. And I call that being frozen into inaction. And if you don't believe me, think of other life and death decisions that are made routinely, like a doctor in a medical emergency. Every single treatment decision can have life and death consequences. So by your logic, those decisions shouldn't be taken, because if wrong, the damage can't be corrected. Do you know what the result would be? That nobody would be treated. You don't call that being "frozen into inaction"? I do.

Quote:Honestly, since you suggested that death-row prisoners should be used for medical experiments and as crash-test dummies, I do not wish to continue our conversation on this subject.
You are mistaking me with someone else. I never said any of those things. Please do me the favor of actually reading my posts before commenting on them.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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06-09-2011, 11:24 AM
 
RE: Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
(06-09-2011 11:19 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  You are mistaking me with someone else. I never said any of those things. Please do me the favor of actually reading my posts before commenting on them.

I sincerely apologize for my mistake.

I mixed you up with blasphemy_fan -- it was a long time ago and I misremembered.

Please forgive me for the unfair and untrue accusation.

Sad
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06-09-2011, 12:17 PM
RE: Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
(06-09-2011 11:24 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(06-09-2011 11:19 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  You are mistaking me with someone else. I never said any of those things. Please do me the favor of actually reading my posts before commenting on them.

I sincerely apologize for my mistake.

I mixed you up with blasphemy_fan -- it was a long time ago and I misremembered.

Please forgive me for the unfair and untrue accusation.

Sad

Accepted. Now I would really be interested in hearing your opinion of my non-extremist views. Smile

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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06-09-2011, 12:27 PM
 
RE: Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
(06-09-2011 12:17 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  Accepted. Now I would really be interested in hearing your opinion of my non-extremist views. Smile

Sy, I think part of our disagreement has to do with our different take on compassion.

However, it is a new big topic by itself and I am going to start a new thread on it very soon.

I suggest, we discuss it there first and see if we can arrive at some kind of consensus, then come back here and see how it can be applied to the topic of Executions.
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07-09-2011, 11:45 PM
RE: Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
(01-09-2011 01:10 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  I read it somewhere: “every society has the morality it can afford”

Are we sure we can’t afford more than state-performed, cold-blooded executions?

I believe that every society has the criminals it deserves.

I do not support the execution people for any reason whatsoever and we do have a responsibility to attempt to rehabilitate offenders and if that is a failure, then incarceration for life has to be the answer.

Mental illness notwithstanding, babies are not born criminals but become such due to environment, lack of parental teaching, circumstances, etc. brought about by society in some way.

Of course, it's easy for me to say these things, and reality is much more complex.

"To think of what the world has suffered from superstition, from religion, from the worship of beast and stone and god, is
almost enough to make one insane."

Robert G. Ingersoll
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08-11-2011, 10:39 PM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2011 10:42 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
(07-09-2011 11:45 PM)Organon Wrote:  I believe that every society has the criminals it deserves.
That's UnAmerican! Big Grin (Thanks, I got "lol" outta that deal - i got a criminal record. ain't never been a criminal. If it works for me, it works for America. If I'm good - blame Gwyneth Paltrow. In all other considerations, I'm evil.

Cause you gotta be evil to understand this topic. First thing, however, is witchcraft. I have found the difference between "faith" and "to believe." It is called make-believe. Faith, on the other hand, requires an investment of identity. Scientists know this. Tongue

One states "I accept the theory of evolution." Big Grin

Capital Punishment. No.

Spoken like "Jesus." That word is my oath on the subject. Killing is your moral right. Not-killing is your ethical responsibility. I'm moral, I'm civilized; I also know that it is "fucked up ethical standard" that allows for the existence of Death Row, Capital Punishment, Prisons.

Putting a social animal in a box for 23and a half is cruel and unusual punishment. Period. If someone commits a crime against your person, you shoot him in the head. If you're civilized and you don't wanna do that - then you're on my side. Because I am rewriting history from the proper beginning - Gwyneth Paltrow - but if you think I am morally comfortable with just dismissing this topic, you got another think coming.

(Hopefully less than eleven volumes...)

(06-09-2011 12:17 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  Accepted. Now I would really be interested in hearing your opinion of my non-extremist views. Smile

uh-oh... Zat, are you an extremist? Do ou attract the extremist element? What kinda guilt I got, identifying with you? Big Grin

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11-11-2011, 07:44 AM
RE: Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
I used to be a proponent of capital punishment, but I've since changed my mind. It's an absolutely barbaric event. I no longer support it at all for several reasons:

1) there is almost always a chance that you are wrong and may be executing an innocent individual.

2) it costs just as much to execute someone (longer trials, more appeals, etc) as it does to imprison them for life, at least according to the studies I've read.

3) death is an easy way out for the convict - being forced to live in jail, separated from friends and family and unable to engage in many activities they might enjoy, as well as constantly live with the regret/remorse for what they have done (most would feel that to some degree, only the very worst don't).

I think that instead of capital punishment, we should imprison them for life, but without any of the frills they currently get - no TV, non-fiction books only, limited social interaction and no conjugal visits (that'd be enough right there for most guys Tongue)

Better without God, and happier too.
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11-11-2011, 09:15 AM
RE: Do you believe in Capital Punishment?
(11-11-2011 07:44 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  2) it costs just as much to execute someone (longer trials, more appeals, etc) as it does to imprison them for life, at least according to the studies I've read.

Two million bucks for the average capital trial - the trial, nothing else. Cost the sate of Arizona 31k per year to house this psychopath, me and the US gov't now do it for under 8... just some facts and figures from your friendly neighborhood con-vict. Big Grin

I was never a criminal - I was caught guilty of being stupid a coupla times - i learned not to be stupid. The sad-but-true is that most learn to be better criminals in the Big House...

But I learned from the Big House. If a society produces undesirables, the solution is exile. Remember Escape from New York? Having been around, in America; that's the way to do it. Otherwise, the expense is simply ludicrous.

Your 3 is simply incorrect. Your average "criminal" is a "me first" type; ever read Green Mile? They all cry walking the walk - talk about the "evil in society," the people in the know feed off this stuff. It's just nasty all the way around. I was ramblin' in my last post on this topic; but there's simply nothing here to "believe in."

Capital Punishment is simply wrong.

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