Do you believe in the divinity of nature/life?
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05-03-2017, 04:11 PM (This post was last modified: 05-03-2017 07:30 PM by mordant.)
RE: Do you believe in the divinity of nature/life?
(05-03-2017 08:58 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(05-03-2017 08:32 AM)mordant Wrote:  This is exactly why I always say that any eternal afterlife eventually (rather quickly, really) becomes its own hell.
Consciousness was made for life, so it would be maladapted to any static afterlife.
Well I would say more that consciousness is evolved to be suited to our mortal reality.

Immortality isn't so much static, as there is only so much variety to be HAD. At some point, you've seen and done it all in some form before; you know how it's going to turn out. It's a little like how they say there are only a handful of actual storyline archetypes, from which all fiction derives. And in fact, only a few archetypal story arcs / roles which all experienced living contains -- given that fiction is just art imitating life.

For immortality to work, mortals would have to transform into something we would not recognize or relate to. Most afterlife concepts, suspiciously, are just idealized versions of this life, with irritants, frustrations, disappointments, bereavements and any sort of competition or need to make money, magically removed. The celestial city is just Chicago or New York with gold plating, basically, and perhaps the ability for people to effortlessly teleport or fly where they need to, although of course the specifics are missing, as usual. I think it's this way because it's all we mortals can conceive of. Presumably in heaven for example only food that appeals to you magically appears for you to eat, and then magically one doesn't have to use the facilities to get rid of previous meals either. We are supposed to imagine eternal life as we want it, without the regrettable need to make it workable.
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05-03-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: Do you believe in the divinity of nature/life?
(05-03-2017 04:11 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(05-03-2017 08:58 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Consciousness was made for life, so it would be maladapted to any static afterlife.
Well I would say more that consciousness is evolved to be suited to our mortal reality.

Immortality isn't so much static, as there is only so much variety to be HAD. At some point, you've seen and done it all in some form before; you know how it's going to turn out. It's a little like how they say there are only a handful of actual storyline archetypes, from which all fiction derives. And in fact, only a few archetypal story arcs / roles which all experienced living contains -- given than fiction is just art imitating life.

For immortality to work, mortals would have to transform into something we would not recognize or relate to. Most afterlife concepts, suspiciously, are just idealized versions of this life, with irritants, frustrations, disappointments, bereavements and any sort of competition or need to make money, magically removed. The celestial city is just Chicago or New York with gold plating, basically, and perhaps the ability for people to effortlessly teleport or fly where they need to, although of course the specifics are missing, as usual. I think it's this way because it's all we mortals can conceive of. Presumably in heaven for example only food that appeals to you magically appears for you to eat, and then magically one doesn't have to use the facilities to get rid of previous meals either. We are supposed to imagine eternal life as we want it, without the regrettable need to make it workable.

Yeah, I won't lie to you, I have a hard time understanding how it exactly works myself. I certainly don't believe the golden city stuff, and I know I won't exactly be aware of anything at all after my death.

If consciousness is the primordial substance of the universe, and our brains merely perceive it. Then our brains could very well be like our eyes. And just how some animals see better than others while some animals see poorer, and still others have only the most basic 'eyes' then the same would hold true for our brains allowing for various fluctuations in how consciousness is perceived.
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05-03-2017, 06:25 PM
RE: Do you believe in the divinity of nature/life?
(04-03-2017 01:40 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  So when I first joined on here, I questioned if I could still be considered an atheist, and yesterday it came to me that that answer is yes! Just because we believe something is divine (ie nature) doesn't mean that we believe it is a god. Rather god has always been superimposed on nature.

I believe nature is divine. To me it is a timeless entity not bound by the preconceived notions that we often set up around it to help expand our understanding of it. It is quite literally all powerful, there is not greater force that we know exists in the universe aside from nature. And very recently I've begun playing with the idea that the universe itself is actually 'living'.


So there's that, my question is now, do any of you believe in something divine? If yes or no, why or why not?

Granted my beliefs don't exactly make nature divine, they are just my preconceived notions. Limited in their articulation by a limited vocabulary.

You do realise this is an atheist forum, right? Consider

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05-03-2017, 06:36 PM
RE: Do you believe in the divinity of nature/life?
Quote:If consciousness is the primordial substance of the universe, and our brains merely perceive it. Then our brains could very well be like our eyes. And just how some animals see better than others while some animals see poorer, and still others have only the most basic 'eyes' then the same would hold true for our brains allowing for various fluctuations in how consciousness is perceived.

> Any evidence of this alleged "primordial substance"?
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05-03-2017, 07:37 PM
RE: Do you believe in the divinity of nature/life?
(05-03-2017 05:58 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  If consciousness is the primordial substance of the universe ...
Well stop right there; it's not. That's a composition fallacy. It contains living things that have consciousness, but it does not then follow that the universe itself is either conscious or somehow composed of consciousness. And we know for a fact what it's composed of at a fundamental level.

100% of current evidence points to consciousness as an emergent property of neurological activity in animals, not a thing-in-itself.
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06-03-2017, 02:52 AM
RE: Do you believe in the divinity of nature/life?
This is my brief study of the various ways consciousness has been viewed over the years:




I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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06-03-2017, 09:00 PM
RE: Do you believe in the divinity of nature/life?
(05-03-2017 07:37 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(05-03-2017 05:58 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  If consciousness is the primordial substance of the universe ...
Well stop right there; it's not. That's a composition fallacy. It contains living things that have consciousness, but it does not then follow that the universe itself is either conscious or somehow composed of consciousness. And we know for a fact what it's composed of at a fundamental level.

100% of current evidence points to consciousness as an emergent property of neurological activity in animals, not a thing-in-itself.

Not exactly elaborating a whole lot there. I suppose I should rather say. Could you elaborate more?
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06-03-2017, 09:07 PM
RE: Do you believe in the divinity of nature/life?
(04-03-2017 02:53 PM)kim Wrote:  
Quote:do any of you believe in something divine?

As an adjective, sometimes but a noun, no.

Quote:why not?

I can describe Persimmons as being divine. And yes, Persimmons are divine.
However, I do not prescribe to them any supernatural powers.

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"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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