Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
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01-07-2011, 10:47 AM
RE: Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
Great response Ghost, I couldn't agree with you more here. And I can't say that I wouldn't want a religious president, we've had some good religious presidents. I wouldn't want a president who bases everything from their faith (Bush Jr.), but could stand one who uses the good teachings to further their own reforms (LBJ). When I'm looking at someone to run office I want someone who will fight for the views this nation once claimed proudly (nowadays it's in contention). They can be any religion, any color, any ethnicity as long as they are willing to uphold the presidency more as a president than as a private citizen. I don't want a president who is out for their personal interest, and while it's easy to make a lot of attacks on how christianity derailed politics, this issue existed from the beginning. Many of the founding fathers were slandered as being atheists when they ran for office. None of them claimed atheism, though at that time being a deist was more accepted. It quickly changed though and christianity has become a staple part of the presidential run, yes some of them aren't really that christian, but I know a lot of christians who aren't really that christian. That they hold better views of the world does not mean they don't believe.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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01-07-2011, 01:04 PM
RE: Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
If Obama was a Muslim, I would be uneasy just because of the fact he hide it to such a deep extent. It would make me think he might be hiding more things about himself and his motives. If an open Muslim tried to run for president and I liked his politics, then I'd have no issue with him. Of course, if a deeply religious Muslim tried to run, I'd disapprove just like I'd disapprove of a deeply religious Christian being president.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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01-07-2011, 02:20 PM
RE: Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
(01-07-2011 10:47 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Great response Ghost, I couldn't agree with you more here. And I can't say that I wouldn't want a religious president, we've had some good religious presidents. I wouldn't want a president who bases everything from their faith (Bush Jr.), but could stand one who uses the good teachings to further their own reforms (LBJ). When I'm looking at someone to run office I want someone who will fight for the views this nation once claimed proudly (nowadays it's in contention). They can be any religion, any color, any ethnicity as long as they are willing to uphold the presidency more as a president than as a private citizen. I don't want a president who is out for their personal interest, and while it's easy to make a lot of attacks on how christianity derailed politics, this issue existed from the beginning. Many of the founding fathers were slandered as being atheists when they ran for office. None of them claimed atheism, though at that time being a deist was more accepted. It quickly changed though and christianity has become a staple part of the presidential run, yes some of them aren't really that christian, but I know a lot of christians who aren't really that christian. That they hold better views of the world does not mean they don't believe.

I need to ask a question that may sound a bit stupid, but which president are you referring to when you say LBJ? I'm not an american.
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01-07-2011, 02:28 PM
RE: Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
derivater Wrote:I need to ask a question that may sound a bit stupid, but which president are you referring to when you say LBJ? I'm not an american.

She is referring to Lydon B. Johnson, who was the president after John Franklin Kennedy (JFK) was assassinated.

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01-07-2011, 04:03 PM
RE: Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
(01-07-2011 01:04 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  If Obama was a Muslim, I would be uneasy just because of the fact he hide it to such a deep extent.

In this country you can not campaign yourself as openly atheist. You can't, you will not be voted in. So, you will not have a president who is capable of doing the right things unbiased.

So I would not be uneasy about Obama being a Muslim and lying about it no more than I would an atheist lying about his beliefs.
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01-07-2011, 07:52 PM
RE: Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
#36 Lyndon B Johnson

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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01-07-2011, 09:34 PM
RE: Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
(01-07-2011 05:39 AM)BnW Wrote:  Could care less what religion he is, but I'm still voting against him in 2012. And, I agree with the comment that he's probably at least an agnostic.

Have you seen the Republican candidates? You'd be better off not voting. It seems like Repubs realized that Obama has a high chance for reelection, so they ran a bunch of experimental candidates "just to see what happens." Gary Johnson is the only one I would consider, but I guarantee he will be rejected by Repubs for his Libertarian views.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

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01-07-2011, 11:49 PM
RE: Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
Hey, Lilith.

Thanks, duder.

Hey, Ludacris.

Sorry about this, but that was, well, ludicrous.

Obama's baptism, his involvement with TUCC, his relationship with Rev. Wright, his parent's religious views, his religious views, all of it is on record and is corroborated by multiple sources. So what you're saying is that you don't buy reams upon reams of corroborated evidence because of a hunch. That's not reasonable. That's Fox News. That's Stephen Colbert saying he doesn't trust facts, he trusts his gut. That’s why people think he’s a racist secret Muslim socialist born in Kenya who wants to kill grandmothers with “Obamacare” death squads!

ludacris Wrote:I however don`t think my questioning his faith is baseless. The internet is full of Mr. Obama making comments I would say are fairly anti-christian, or at the very least are unlike any thing I have ever heard a christian say, which would cause me to doubt his belief. Maybe he is just some new kind of christian full of tolerance and interesting ideas, who knows.

I think it's absolutely baseless.

1 - Speaking out against the organisation you are a part of doesn't preclude you from membership. I speak out against Canada all the time, that doesn't mean I'm not a Canadian. I know bloody ministers who speak out against Christianity. It's this sort of propaganda machine thinking that forced Obama out of the TUCC. Reverend Wright dared to condemn the United States for its long history of marginalising and brutalising blacks, saying "God damn America." That act of (vomitous word) UNAMERICANISM painted Wright as a monster and made people question whether or not, at best, Obama really loved America or, at worst, was even an American?

2 - If you have no experience with something, it doesn't mean it's not possible, it means you have no experience with it. I have no experience with gorgeous Swedish twins calling me up out of the blue and telling me they’re having a dick-sucking contest and that they want me to be the judge, but that don’t make that sort of thing impossible.

3 - Are you really going to sit there and, in a rational discussion, suggest that there is no such thing as tolerant Christians with interesting ideas and that therefore, any tolerant or interesting Christian must represent some new, never-before seen breed of Christian? Come on! That’s absurd. It’s puerile rhetoric. Rhetoric is not fact.

So if you're saying it's foolish to say he's for sure a Christian and to base that opinion on mountains of substantiated proof, then I just gotta disagree with you (and throw up in my mouth a little). I warned you. I told you I felt queasy. But nooooooooooo. You just had to poke me.

Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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02-07-2011, 06:41 AM
RE: Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
(01-07-2011 09:34 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
(01-07-2011 05:39 AM)BnW Wrote:  Could care less what religion he is, but I'm still voting against him in 2012. And, I agree with the comment that he's probably at least an agnostic.

Have you seen the Republican candidates? You'd be better off not voting. It seems like Repubs realized that Obama has a high chance for reelection, so they ran a bunch of experimental candidates "just to see what happens." Gary Johnson is the only one I would consider, but I guarantee he will be rejected by Repubs for his Libertarian views.

I'm intrigued by Huntsman but, regardless of who the Republican candidate is, I'm not voting for Obama. I may vote 3rd party.

Ghost - 2 things:
1. the original point of the thread was not about whether or not Obama is a Muslim. It was about to you give a shit what religion he is or isn't. That is not playing into the mythology.
2. He attended a church for a long time, true, but I know several people who attend a church or temple who don't really believe in god. They do it for several reasons - social, cultural, etc. Obama may have done so for political reasons. But, I base my comment that I think he's at least an agnostic by what he says. He has gone well out of his way to avoid referring to any god, to even using the phrase "our prayers are with [fill in the blank]". After the Giffords shooting incident when he spoke about the tragedy, he specifically never used that phrase. To me, that is rather telling as I would have purposely avoided it myself.

He may not be an agnostic. Ultimately, as I said in my first post, I don't care. As long as he's not making policy because his imaginary friend told him to do so, I don't care what religion he is or isn't. What I'm concerned about is that he seems to be making policy based on what his campaign contributing friends told him to do so, which is part of the reason he's lost any chance of my vote.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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02-07-2011, 07:57 AM
RE: Do you care if Obama is really a Muslim?
All I was saying is that there is no way to say for absolutely sure that someone who is running in a race that is pro christianity, to say that even though that person says they are christian, they are. It is common sense for that person to use whatever tools are at their disposal to win that race. politicians are known for lying. Especially before they even sign up for the race. It's important for a future presidential candidate to make their reputation well before they even announce running. It really improves their chances. I also know a lot of so called christians who don't really believe but use it for it's social aspect.
Whatever you may think or I may think that doesn't really matter. However saying my thoughts are baseless is ridiculous considering I already stated that I had them based on things he has said that seem very anti religious. I don't know where he is coming from, or what he really means, it's really impossible to tell without me being him, but I wouldn't want to really guarantee anything about his belief structure. And I stand by my statement, that to take a politician at his word is pure idiocy. That's not to say that you are an idiot, you clearly have other reasons why you believe him to be a christian, and that is great for you. Don't get mad. It's all a bunch of who-gives-a-shit-anyways conversation.

peace love and empathy right?

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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