Do you even circus?
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01-08-2013, 09:31 AM
RE: Do you even circus?
I've spent a lot of time with many horses (I used to be a ranch hand) and let me tell you...race horses, for the most part, are extremely well treated, happy animals. Abuse is the exception, not the rule. Plus, like already mentioned, today's horses are bred to be what they are. A draft horse needs to pull extra weight, since it's own body weight is not enough to exercise it's muscles. Likewise, a thoroughbred needs to carry a rider to run at a full out sprint. That's because these horses were bred to do this. Frolicking in a field doesn't cut it. And the horses will show it too. A draft horse left to itself will quickly get out of shape and miserable. A draft horse that pulls a cart every day will be happy, energetic, calm, and affectionate.

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01-08-2013, 09:44 AM
RE: Do you even circus?
(31-07-2013 08:00 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(31-07-2013 07:50 PM)slydog Wrote:  What one poster said. I know of people who have race horses, reining horses, and those horses love what they do. Same with my own dogs.

They love to work, and most of them need that work in order to not only stay fit, but to also burn off energy and give their mind something to do. They were bred for that kind of work. Not giving them an outlet for their desire to work and do what they were bred for not only creates an animal with a racing mind, but it amounts to abuse IMO.

I know because I deal with idiot dog owners who get a working bred border collie or other high drive, high energy working breed and expect a walk around the block to calm to satiate a working bred dog. The dog usually becomes destructive, trying desperately to drain some of the manic energy it has stored up, ends in a shelter and is eventually killed because there is no one to give it a home. I see it all the time. Or they get a pit bull thinking it will behave like a golden retriever, then call the dog a monster when it kills their cat because it is a terrier and viewed the cat as a small furry animal it needed to catch.

It is no different than a horse bred for racing or reining events. Giving them a chance to do what they love, giving them mental stimulation and an outlet for their energy creates a relaxed, happy animal.

Now, I do understand your point with rodeos. I have yet to find a purpose in bull riding.


Running around in a field is not the same as working, not the same as the horse racing on a track where it has to think and control its pace. It has to exercise its mind just as my dog has to use his mind on an agility course, even if it is a sport. You should hear the sounds he makes when he knows when we are close. Even horses act that way. It is a *happy dance* all the way to the ring. Big Grin

Are there people who abuse the animals they work with? Sure. I have seen things like that, but they are few and far between and were dealt with quickly. No need to condemn the whole sport for the acts of a few.

How did the horses survive before we were around to work them Consider


What is the difference between the wild bananas and the banana Ray Comfort holds in his hand as proof of God's existence?
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01-08-2013, 12:42 PM
RE: Do you even circus?
(31-07-2013 06:59 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Went as a kid. Bearded ladies gave me the creeps, too Confused
And speaking of 'Carnival', where were the ladies "dancing the cooch" when I went Dodgy

Circuses and carnivals are childhood rip offs anyways. Sad

(01-08-2013 09:13 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Your wisdom exceeds your years, young grasshopper.

It doesn't take old wisdom to know that a lady with a beard definitely needs a razor and veet waxing strips.
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01-08-2013, 12:52 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2013 12:55 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Do you even circus?
(01-08-2013 09:31 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I've spent a lot of time with many horses (I used to be a ranch hand) and let me tell you...race horses, for the most part, are extremely well treated, happy animals. Abuse is the exception, not the rule. Plus, like already mentioned, today's horses are bred to be what they are. A draft horse needs to pull extra weight, since it's own body weight is not enough to exercise it's muscles. Likewise, a thoroughbred needs to carry a rider to run at a full out sprint. That's because these horses were bred to do this. Frolicking in a field doesn't cut it. And the horses will show it too. A draft horse left to itself will quickly get out of shape and miserable. A draft horse that pulls a cart every day will be happy, energetic, calm, and affectionate.

It's a catch 22 in this sense. Once you have domesticated a dog or cat you cannot simply return them to the wild, you have breed them to exist in the home environment and it is your obligation to raise them in captivity. A dog is not a coyote and a cat is not a lynx. This little orange idiot sitting on my couch would not make it a week on the outside.

Horses are a great example because we have certainly breed and specialized them quite thoroughly. A clydesdale is a far cry from a wild horse. We have a symbiotic relationship...if all a horse was good for was running around in a field we wouldn't breed them or care for them and their numbers would dwindle. We might eat apples and smoke weed but the apples and the weed are winning...They are being breed in numbers far exceeding their natural limits and are allowed to grow bigger and stronger than they otherwise could, kept free of pests, etc...plus Stark is totally right race horses are worth a small fortune, they are pampered by horse standards...unless they break a leg...

Sea world is an awful company that is terrible to it's whales but you still can't just dump them off in the Atlantic and wipe your hands...Those whales can never go back.

Selective breeding is a contract spanning generations.

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01-08-2013, 02:42 PM
RE: Do you even circus?
Quote:I oppose animal cruelty because I believe life has innate value.

Then you must be a vegan? And how do you come up with the value that life is inherently worthy? On what basis, since we are the products of evolutionary stimuli, and since carnivores kill other animals, do you find life is worthy to survive/be preserved?

Quote:You're the Christian, you tell me what Genesis 1:28 means, if not the obvious.

Dominion or rule, "radah", is fine, especially as we understand what a benign rule is, right? If one is to rule over Kingdom Animalia we cannot be exterminating/extincting it or we'd have nothing to rule over. Or do you think horses and pigs should run cities and factories? Of course you don't think that...
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01-08-2013, 02:48 PM
Re: Do you even circus?
*rolls eyes* yup I obviously meant to just release all the horses to the wild with my comment.



What I am saying and will continue to say is there are far too many reported cases of terrible abuse and drugs for me to be comfortable in supporting the sport. It doesn't make one bit of difference to me that 3 people say "its not so bad"

No one is saying you have to agree with me.

And yes....seaworld is awful too. Would never go there. Did you hear about what happened there recently?
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01-08-2013, 03:00 PM
RE: Do you even circus?
(01-08-2013 02:42 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Then you must be a vegan? And how do you come up with the value that life is inherently worthy? On what basis, since we are the products of evolutionary stimuli, and since carnivores kill other animals, do you find life is worthy to survive/be preserved?

Hardly. My existence necessitates the death of other life. This is true of all living things. No point being hung up on that.

Diversity and complexity are what makes life interesting.

(01-08-2013 02:42 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Dominion or rule, "radah", is fine, especially as we understand what a benign rule is, right? If one is to rule over Kingdom Animalia we cannot be exterminating/extincting it or we'd have nothing to rule over.

Okay then. Benign is a moral judgement, and thus disputable. But that isn't the question. Why should humans rule at all? "Because pigs can't" is frankly idiotic. But at least amusing.

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01-08-2013, 03:04 PM
RE: Do you even circus?
(01-08-2013 02:48 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  *rolls eyes* yup I obviously meant to just release all the horses to the wild with my comment.

What I am saying and will continue to say is there are far too many reported cases of terrible abuse and drugs for me to be comfortable in supporting the sport. It doesn't make one bit of difference to me that 3 people say "its not so bad"

No one is saying you have to agree with me.

And yes....seaworld is awful too. Would never go there. Did you hear about what happened there recently?

Nah. S'just that a working animal needs to be working to be happy and healthy. And there were no working animals before humans made them to work with. That much is pretty straightforward.

I have no particular feelings about horse racing; mistreatment is obviously bad.

Cetacean captivity is extremely distasteful.

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01-08-2013, 03:26 PM
RE: Do you even circus?
Don't get me started on places like sea world. Sad


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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01-08-2013, 04:27 PM
RE: Do you even circus?
(01-08-2013 03:04 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(01-08-2013 02:48 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  *rolls eyes* yup I obviously meant to just release all the horses to the wild with my comment.

What I am saying and will continue to say is there are far too many reported cases of terrible abuse and drugs for me to be comfortable in supporting the sport. It doesn't make one bit of difference to me that 3 people say "its not so bad"

No one is saying you have to agree with me.

And yes....seaworld is awful too. Would never go there. Did you hear about what happened there recently?

Nah. S'just that a working animal needs to be working to be happy and healthy. And there were no working animals before humans made them to work with. That much is pretty straightforward.

I have no particular feelings about horse racing; mistreatment is obviously bad.

Cetacean captivity is extremely distasteful.

This.

...and I'm attempting to add the point that without a human benefit to captivity, wether that be companionship, aid in hunting or herding, racing, riot cavalry, display in a tank, food, w/e those animals would likely not even exist...so as long as they are treated with respect it's fine by me. Modern livestock would do terrible in the wild, domestic turkeys would probably be extinct in a generation or two. But that doesn't mean I condone fitting them with gastric access points or raising them in piles of their own filth, for a plethora of reasons including but not limited to the welfare of the animal itself.

When you are dealing with something like a whale or dolphin that is caught in the wild and not domestically bred it's a pretty shitty practice...and yeah the guy who made 'Blackfish' was on Bill Maher the other day.

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