Do you fear death?
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03-01-2015, 02:53 PM
RE: Do you fear death?
(03-01-2015 02:45 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 10:58 AM)gofish! Wrote:  Wow. I've got a similar story with another dimension.

My mother had, unbeknownst to us, been harbouring stomach cancer. Having just come back from living in the US, I suddenly found myself thrust into the role of carer, which I took without question.

What I then learnt was that during my time away, my brother (who I strongly suspect, though I can't state with certainty, is very much out there on the Anti-Social Behaviour Disorder spectrum) had been "caring" for her. This seemed to consist manily of taking over her bank accounts (she'd been in a daze after Dad died, after 48 years of marriage) and using it to travel the world and affect the lifestyle of a playboy, periodically turning up to mentally abuse her (he controlled her through her love for him). On one occasion after my father's death, he even frog-marched her into a solicitor to sign "some documents", which later turned out to be a new will leaving everything to him. I got a call from her asking for help when she realised what was going on and I flew in from the US to help her undo this with the help of a law firm not connected with anyone in the family (they were great, kicking me out of the room after the introductions were made, exactly as they should).

She eventually "evicted" him with help from members of her church (she was a JW), but now she was ill, she gave me enduring power of attorney, informed e I was the executor of her will and gave me some very clear directives.

One was not, under any circumstances, to inform my brother, except in the case of her actual death. She dreaded him coming back to "take control" of the situation.

The other was to honour her wishes for treatment as a JW. Of course, she knew I was an atheist and was aware of the impact this would have on me, but after previous events, she said I was the only one she could trust.

I knew what would come. Between my wife and I we made her as comfortable as possible and when the time came, took her into hospital, visiting everyday. The doctors said the only way they could treat her was with the benefit of blood transfusions that she would not accept. Later, as her condition worsened, she went into the hospice. I was with her at her passing.

The pyschological assault that started after I was free to inform my brother of her passing was a new low for both him and for me. As her law firm were the contingent executors, I resigned as executor and passed duties to them, if only to prevent tortious litigation from my brother.

So yes, I think I had more than my fair share of adversity to face. And yet, to this day, I feel relieved and even proud that I stood up for her right to live and die as she chose and that as she passed, I could look her in the eye and tell her that her wishes would be honoured, regardless of the costs on me.

Yes, these events have a funny effect on the living, but my two cents is that if you love someone and truly respect their wishes, these inevitable events in life are yet another rite of passage not to be shirked or otherwise avoided.

There should be a thread dedicated to wills and family squabbles. Weddings and funerals bring out the worst in people, especially when money is involved.

That might be useful.

As for my brother, it was never about the money (although he was notoriously unable to look after himself). It was always about "control", hence the ASBD concerns. Hey, it only takes one, right?

But who said life would be easy?

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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03-01-2015, 03:25 PM
RE: Do you fear death?
(03-01-2015 02:53 PM)gofish! Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 02:45 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  There should be a thread dedicated to wills and family squabbles. Weddings and funerals bring out the worst in people, especially when money is involved.

That might be useful.

As for my brother, it was never about the money (although he was notoriously unable to look after himself). It was always about "control", hence the ASBD concerns. Hey, it only takes one, right?

But who said life would be easy?

Well, my sister was very concerned with the money, what little there was that my father left. He was a teacher.

My sister married a man who provided her with a huge amount of material wealth, but it was never enough money for her. She could be married to Bill Gates and it still wouldn't have been enough money. So when my father died she didn't trust my husband to go over and make the funeral arrangements. She figured he was over there stealing money right and left, as if my dad had it all stored under his bed or something. All he had was his teachers pension which was automatically deposited into his bank account every month.

The funny part was that after she tried to have my husband arrested (there was a blizzard going on that night and the police had better things to do) she didn't speak to me, slammed the phone down on me during a conversation. And then a few weeks later I found out that I was the sole recipient of my fathers death benefit for 8 thousand dollars. I split it between my two brothers and myself. My brothers always had issues with my sister too. Never got along with her.

My lovely Christian sister hasn't spoken to her only child in 15 years as well. He's married and has a child of his own now but that doesn't seem to matter to her. She's totally screwed up.

It's been good to talk about this. It all still hurts.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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03-01-2015, 04:08 PM
RE: Do you fear death?
Death fears me.

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#sigh
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03-01-2015, 04:28 PM
RE: Do you fear death?
(01-01-2015 09:49 PM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  Hello my beautiful bunch of lovely loves! (Sorry, I'm drinking a margarita at the moment)

Ok, this is actually a serious topic for me, so put your serious faces on! So I have stopped fearing hell for a while now, but recently I've been fearing death. I've just been realizing how inevitable death is. I'm afraid of my life going by too fast or dying too young. I just love living and I can't imagine ever being ready to die!

Does anyone else deal with this fear? What do you do?

It's a normal fear. I fear death. Everyone does. No one wants to die but eventually we do. Until that time I'm doing everything I can to avoid it. You live on through the legacy you leave with those that remember you.

The second mouse gets the cheese.
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03-01-2015, 04:51 PM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2015 04:56 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Do you fear death?
(03-01-2015 04:28 PM)The Drake Wrote:  It's a normal fear. I fear death. Everyone does. No one wants to die but eventually we do. Until that time I'm doing everything I can to avoid it.

I dance with her. She stumbles a lot. God love her. Big Grin




#sigh
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03-01-2015, 05:10 PM
RE: Do you fear death?
No, I don't. Then again, I've never had any close brushes with death either. Death is for the dead, I'll worry about it then, when I no longer have any means of worrying about it.

You can tell I'm in my youth can't you? Just from my attitude on it.

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03-01-2015, 08:54 PM
RE: Do you fear death?
Death merely ends the artificial separation between self and universe. The weight of integrity on identity predicts a narrowing path through decision space such that longevity can only result in stultifying decay where renewal solely occurs through oblivion.

But then again, I'm a crazy person with an emotional mathematical understanding of reality. Tongue

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03-01-2015, 09:45 PM
RE: Do you fear death?
(01-01-2015 09:49 PM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  Hello my beautiful bunch of lovely loves! (Sorry, I'm drinking a margarita at the moment)

Ok, this is actually a serious topic for me, so put your serious faces on! So I have stopped fearing hell for a while now, but recently I've been fearing death. I've just been realizing how inevitable death is. I'm afraid of my life going by too fast or dying too young. I just love living and I can't imagine ever being ready to die!

Does anyone else deal with this fear? What do you do?

Used to but not really. For me, what helped what 1909.

Developing from theism to atheism, I really gravitated to Penn Jillette. Not that I don't like Dawkins or Hitchens but I am not scientifically savvy. I'm not stupid but you can explain some scientific to me ten times and if you ask me to explain what I was told, you'll get a blank stare and a, " the thing and the thing then science." Penn's more simplistic (not saying he's stupid. I'm sure he's smart but not more intelligent than Teller) and focuses more on the life aspect than facts. The sort of way of atheism that I get. Anyways, in Everyday is an Athiest Holiday, he talks about an interview he did with Peers Morgan. Peers was talking about death and Penn says, "1909." Like a few people have said in their posts, you don't remember those years you didn't exist. Death is like that. What matters most is the gap between the time you didn't exist and the time you stop existing (well in a physical sense, you'll still exist in records and whatnot). Penn talks a lot about life, how important it is and tells things like they are. So I came to value the idea that I got this one shot. One shot to fill my time doing what I want to do, be the person I want to be and enjoy the little things while they lasts. Death is just simply a deadline so I'm focusing on living now.

I'll be honest with you (and whoever), though, its not so much death that gets to me. It's the possiblity that...well...not enjoying my last few years properly. Lemme explain. My grandma on my dad's side has had Alzheimer's for at least 6 years. I've seen her go from sticky notes throughout the house to remind her of things, to wandering aimlessly while babbling the same confused stories to the stuffed animal in her arm, to sitting in a wheelchair, barely holding her stuffed animal, not having the capacity to form sentences. Perhaps it wouldnt get to me if I never visited her. Navigating through a nursing home, punching in the numbers for the Alzheimer's ward, then finding a door with your name on it. Of course its not your room and thats not you in the wheelchair making your visitors feel lucky if you do something to acknowledge that you heard what they said, but its hard not to wonder if that could be you, especially when a nurse comes in, saying your name, and the person they were actually talking to says nothing. Someone that, though they breath, acts as if they were dead.

I enjoy thinking. Not thinking like filling out a Sudoku book or solving equations. Like I hinted at before, my brain doesn't do that type of thinking well. I mean thinking as in seeing people walking down the street and creating a story for why they're going where they're going, pondering what a person would do if I were to break into song or do something unexpected, wondering why authors/screenwriters choose particular aspects for their characters and how their audience responds to that choice. Small things like that which entertain my imagination. I'd be bullshitting you if I said I wasn't scared to loose my imagination or to stop think. I use my imagination quite often and I love thinking. I don't want to know what it'll be like to have it gone, to not think anything, to be lucky to remember how to breathe. I'm not aware if its been researched how an a
Alzheimer's person thinks when the Alzheimer's gets advanced but I'm sure its a terrifying ride.

For that aspect, an arguably mental death before a physical one, I reminded myself that it isn't necessarily true that I will get Alzheimer's. After all, my other grandma was sharp as a tack with a bite to her humor til the day she died. I could easily be as smart as I am now until I pass just as I could be in a wheelchair, having lost the memory to do most anything. That and, of course, the concept I get from 1909. Being happy, doing my best to be what I feel to be a good person and enjoying my imagination because who knows how long it lasts? If I let my fear of the end come to light, it hinders whatever time I can have to feel joy. So that's what I'm choosing to do.

Don't know if any of that helped. Remember what Peter Banning said at the end of Hook, "Life is the greatest adventure." (Or something like that). God, I love that movie.BANGARANG!

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03-01-2015, 10:59 PM
RE: Do you fear death?
(03-01-2015 05:39 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 11:00 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  ^^^this is very much at play and I think it explains much of what Stark, Vosur and others have said in the beginning. Its an instinctual response, our body, physiologically speaking, doesnt want to die any more than what we have all stated in the thread. I think a body will fight and rush all the aldrenaline and such that it can in those final moments to stop it.

This loses potency as you grow old. It's purpose is to keep you from dying when your body is not worn out yet. When you are old, fight or flight are not options in any situation, and the instinct to do so has subsided in most cases.

I don't know, I have known many bodies that just wouldnt stop fighting even though they couldnt ever recover. My own father would not go without a fight even though he was in deep dark places emotionally. Some just don't ever let go, he just kept fighting. surrender wasnt an option for him. He went to his death kicking and fighting.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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04-01-2015, 07:24 AM
RE: Do you fear death?
(03-01-2015 10:59 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 05:39 AM)Dom Wrote:  This loses potency as you grow old. It's purpose is to keep you from dying when your body is not worn out yet. When you are old, fight or flight are not options in any situation, and the instinct to do so has subsided in most cases.

I don't know, I have known many bodies that just wouldnt stop fighting even though they couldnt ever recover. My own father would not go without a fight even though he was in deep dark places emotionally. Some just don't ever let go, he just kept fighting. surrender wasnt an option for him. He went to his death kicking and fighting.

Could be anger, many people get angry when they realize they are dying but they aren't finished with whatever matters at the time. There are also ways of going that involve lots of muscle spasms - which is why people in hospitals are routinely doped up to oblivion these days. My first husband died cursing and fighting and spasmed something awful - but he was young and had concrete plans for several days pending. He wasn't at all ready to go. His body was in perfect shape except for that one spot...

I guess personality also plays into this. But as a rule, once you are in your 80s you have seen enough death to be comfortable with it. And likely your body has become a permanent pain in the ass with no chance of rejuvenation. It's a relief to be rid of it.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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