Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
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17-08-2012, 06:47 PM
RE: Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
(17-08-2012 04:08 PM)bemore Wrote:  Somebody mention nukes???

It would be nice if there were no nukes but isn't it a pointless issue? The knowledge exists so they never go away. Beyond that the video refutes its own point. Since the invention of nukes the death toll of wars has gone way down. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war...death_toll
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17-08-2012, 07:04 PM
RE: Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
(17-08-2012 06:47 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 04:08 PM)bemore Wrote:  Somebody mention nukes???

It would be nice if there were no nukes but isn't it a pointless issue? The knowledge exists so they never go away. Beyond that the video refutes its own point. Since the invention of nukes the death toll of wars has gone way down. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war...death_toll

Do you think Nukes are a major factor of that?

Is it not possible that if nukes were not ever invented, and WWII ended a bit later with more U.S. and Russian soldiers lives being lost in fighting Japan until they surrendered; That the worlds warfare could of evolved similarly in this way of non-massive war death tolls?

Wanting to remove the nation of Israel entirely may not be rational. It is not a giant leap from the policy of nations like the U.S. Who also saw nations committing international crimes and did take efforts to remove those nations power structure. They just happened to let the nations exist and evolve... although The U.S. is basically the key main clog that has prevented the nation of Palestine from being able to legally exist. Is the motive there rational?

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18-08-2012, 01:48 AM
RE: Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
(17-08-2012 03:53 PM)poolboyg88 Wrote:  1. There is no evidence that the government of Iran has sought, is seeking, or will seek to create Nuclear weapons.
2. There is no evidence that the state of Iran is capable, or will be capable in near future of creating nuclear weapons.
3. There is no evidence that the state of Iran is an irrational actor.
4. There is no evidence that the state of Iran, unmolested, will be an irrational actor.

Now, that list does not hold true for some states that do possess nuclear weapons.

There is no problem of an Iran utilizing nuclear energy.

There IS a problem with states that currently possess nuclear weapons (and have used them) in having nuclear weapons.

1. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,...36,00.html
2. see the above.
3. too bad it is not the "state of Iran", it is the "Islamic republic of Iran". You are in a website called "The Thinking Atheist". you do the math.
4. see the above and http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,...28,00.html

The only thing there is no evidence for is your capability of seeing.
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18-08-2012, 03:32 AM
RE: Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
(17-08-2012 07:04 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 06:47 PM)Jeff Wrote:  It would be nice if there were no nukes but isn't it a pointless issue? The knowledge exists so they never go away. Beyond that the video refutes its own point. Since the invention of nukes the death toll of wars has gone way down. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war...death_toll

Do you think Nukes are a major factor of that?

Yes, that's how it looks to me

(17-08-2012 07:04 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Is it not possible that if nukes were not ever invented, and WWII ended a bit later with more U.S. and Russian soldiers lives being lost in fighting Japan until they surrendered; That the worlds warfare could of evolved similarly in this way of non-massive war death tolls?

No

(17-08-2012 07:04 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Wanting to remove the nation of Israel entirely may not be rational.

May not? So Iran could launch it's nukes at Israel, killing 8 million people, and you'd be pondering whether it was reasonable? You can't make up your mind in advance?

(17-08-2012 07:04 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It is not a giant leap from the policy of nations like the U.S. Who also saw nations committing international crimes and did take efforts to remove those nations power structure. They just happened to let the nations exist and evolve... although The U.S. is basically the key main clog that has prevented the nation of Palestine from being able to legally exist. Is the motive there rational?

Yes you are making a giant leap. And yes, the US policy on Palestine is rational. You don't like it apparently, but that doesn't make it irrational.
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18-08-2012, 03:51 AM
RE: Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
There is "club" of countries that all have nukes..... none of them are whiter than white and all vary in different degrees of humanitarian issues.

Some members of this club have been going to war all over the world since they got them (and before) in the name of "peace"... a nuke has never been fired since Hiroshima and Nagasaki in all of these wars..... not even in the "cold war".

Israel and Iran hate each other...... Israel possesses Nukes but they have never used them against Iran..... Yet it is Israel who are chomping at the bit wanting to go in and strike facilities and disable their nuclear programme.

Id rather not let Ahmadinejad have them.... even if the war was abroad that would be more radioactive shit pumped into the atmos alongside all the latest fukushima radiation.... but then again from there point of view it is us who are the bad guys who allready have these nukes, although branded as a "deterent" any nuclear country standing off against a country with no Nukes is at an advantage. You dont have to wave them about (nukes) or threaten to use them, they just sit ominously there in the background..... the ultimate last resort gamechanger.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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18-08-2012, 05:36 AM
RE: Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
(17-08-2012 07:04 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Do you think Nukes are a major factor of that?

Of course it is. Countries that posses nuclear capabilities know what will happen when they are used, which limits aggression between them. The bad thing about Iran is that it is full of Islamic extremists, most of which would be more than willing to start weaponizing and activating the warheads.

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18-08-2012, 08:57 AM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2012 09:09 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
(18-08-2012 03:32 AM)Jeff Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 07:04 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Do you think Nukes are a major factor of that?

Yes, that's how it looks to me

(17-08-2012 07:04 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Is it not possible that if nukes were not ever invented, and WWII ended a bit later with more U.S. and Russian soldiers lives being lost in fighting Japan until they surrendered; That the worlds warfare could of evolved similarly in this way of non-massive war death tolls?

No

(17-08-2012 07:04 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Wanting to remove the nation of Israel entirely may not be rational.

May not? So Iran could launch it's nukes at Israel, killing 8 million people, and you'd be pondering whether it was reasonable? You can't make up your mind in advance?

(17-08-2012 07:04 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It is not a giant leap from the policy of nations like the U.S. Who also saw nations committing international crimes and did take efforts to remove those nations power structure. They just happened to let the nations exist and evolve... although The U.S. is basically the key main clog that has prevented the nation of Palestine from being able to legally exist. Is the motive there rational?

Yes you are making a giant leap. And yes, the US policy on Palestine is rational. You don't like it apparently, but that doesn't make it irrational.

My statement that has nothing to do with the nuclear arms debate of HOW Iran would want to remove Israel. You put it into that discussion. That's one of their desired methods, which is irrational, but that is not the goal.

It's just the desire to want the nation of Israel to not exist. Which you say is not rational. While you say the desire to have the nation of Palestine not exist is rational. A majority of the worlds nations recognize Palestine and voted for it's membership inclusion of UNESCO. The US, Canada, Australia, and a few European nations still appose the inclusion.

You can't ignore that they could of been an equal power-surge of arms and technology in a near cold war reality that excludes atomic bombs. A massive development of missile tech could still of resulted in the types of much smaller war-efforts in the 2nd half of the 20th century.

I do have a problem letting Iran build the ability to utilize a nuclear weapon; however, how far do you go to stop them.

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18-08-2012, 10:37 AM
RE: Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
(18-08-2012 08:57 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I do have a problem letting Iran build the ability to utilize a nuclear weapon; however, how far do you go to stop them.

As far as it takes to prevent one from being produced. If the U.S fails to act, Israel won't sit around idly with their fingers up their ass. The U.S can afford to wait, Israel can't.

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18-08-2012, 11:36 AM
RE: Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
(18-08-2012 08:57 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  While you say the desire to have the nation of Palestine not exist is rational.

Where did I say this?
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18-08-2012, 12:00 PM
RE: Do you have a problem with a nuclear armed Iran?
(18-08-2012 11:36 AM)Jeff Wrote:  
(18-08-2012 08:57 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  While you say the desire to have the nation of Palestine not exist is rational.

Where did I say this?

You said that the U.S. Policy on Palestine is rational. That policy is voting down efforts to accepting Palestine from existing as a nation in the U.N./UNESCO. While Obama has said he Palestine and Israel both have the right to exist as nations. The efforts and policies have not been in that direction. They still stand not denying the claim that a U.N. petition of Palestine would be vetoed.

So the policy is preventing Palestine from existing. I am sidetracking this topic now though.

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