Do you like feminism?
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01-05-2016, 03:08 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
What do you mean? Like when women in the western world collectively shouted "fuck this shit!" and went out and took what was rightfully theirs? Those strong respectable women who refused to be victims?
Or are you talking about manspreading?
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01-05-2016, 03:11 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2016 03:14 PM by Dom.)
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 02:38 PM)natachan Wrote:  Whether or not it's fair or right women are expected to pick up the majority of unpaid labor in our country. Women are expected to take the brunt of child care duties. Women are expected to do most of the cooking and cleaning. It's not right and it's not fair, but that's how it is. When people claim "women don't get raises because they're always getting called away from the office for child care issues" the response is "why are men less likely to be called out for child care?"

Hmm, sad. I had this argument with my dad some 40 years ago when he didn't want to hire a woman engineer for those exact reasons. And I also responded the same way.

40 years of societal evolution and we haven't moved on yet. What a shame. Dad, I apologize. It was a much bigger jump for you to understand this 40 years ago, and you did end up hiring that female engineer. I thought you were far behind the times. Looks like you were way ahead of your time after all.

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01-05-2016, 04:05 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 10:58 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Curiously, one of the - if not the - top concerns of MRA's is men not getting access to their children. It's interesting to look at the different evaluations of the same occurence. I don't know what you call yourself, but you seem to frame the courts bias for female child custody as, "Why the fuck do the women have to deal with the children all the time!" while MRAs are framing it as, "Why the fuck can't men see their children!"

By the way, relevant is the fact that women initate 69% of divorces in america.

Also the few men who do get custody recieve support for that child 25% less of the time than mothers who get custody. They also are awarded less due by the courts, AND see less than what they're due. Source.

So women are iniating the end of the vast majority of terminated marriages, and are getting child custody the vast majority of the time, and then recieving support more, and more of it.. This hardly paints the narrative that deadbeat dads are leaving their families, but much more readily says moms are kicking dads out and keeping the kids with them, then enjoying benefits he wouldn't have should he have even got the kids.

By the way, how many women do you know who have paid alimony? 2010 US censes says only 3% of alimony payers were women. Consider

That women initiate the legal break up of a marriage is, in my mind, of no consequence. My first reaction when I read that was "men are more likely to just muddle through". But, I did a quick google search and found an an article from psychology today that goes into some details to explain the numbers. I'm not psychologist and I have no idea if PT is full of shit but their comments are pretty consistent with my limited observations on the topic with people I know who've gone through divorce (although of the small sample I have to look at, the rate is higher than 31% for men initiating the divorce: 6 divorces I know of and 2 initiated by the husband, and 1 of those after he caught his wife cheating for the 2nd time).

Regarding child access, I can't comment on the national scene but I know in NJ and NY you generally get "split custody" with one parent being primary, usually the mother (but not always). Child support is usually granted to the person who has primary care.

Regarding the differences in payments, it has a lot to do with income. 538 did an overview of this question, using the same source as the blog you posted (US Census Bureau statistics). This doesn't address alimony but the data on income would apply. 538's conclusion is that custodial fathers are much better off financially than custodial mothers and that plays in a whole lot to child support calculations.

I still stand by the statement that women are getting screwed far more often than men are. And, when it comes to the financial disparity between single dads and single moms, Pew Research Center has something to add to the discussion. If you read that link, it talks about the difference in poverty. One statement in particular jumped out at me:

Single fathers, on average, have higher incomes than single mothers and are far less likely to be living at or below the poverty line—24% versus 43%. Single fathers are also somewhat less educated than single mothers, older and more likely to be white.

So, single dads are likely to be less educated and earn more money. Go figure.

If you're not seeing women getting the short end of the stick, I'd say that's willful on your part. That said, I do agree that family law has historically screwed dads. That's been changing the past 20 years, but it probably needs more work. But in general women get screwed a whole lot more.

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01-05-2016, 04:41 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
I'd rather be low income and have my daughter than be middle class and pay child support pushing me into low income, and only see my daughter twice a month, like I did for 14 years.

Thankfully she turned 16 and was able to decide where she wants to live and I've had her for the last year.

Even though I made more money, had a house, nice cars, a good career, the judge gave my ex wife custody even after she failed two drug tests, refused to work and received welfare and lived in a crappy section 8 apartment.

Women have got this benefit forever, and they continue to. I missed out on the majority of my daughter's life, paid tons in child support, while my ex wife forced my daughter to live in filth. All the while every time I brought it to court, I lost.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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01-05-2016, 04:49 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 04:41 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I'd rather be low income and have my daughter than be middle class and pay child support pushing me into low income, and only see my daughter twice a month, like I did for 14 years.

Thankfully she turned 16 and was able to decide where she wants to live and I've had her for the last year.

Even though I made more money, had a house, nice cars, a good career, the judge gave my ex wife custody even after she failed two drug tests, refused to work and received welfare and lived in a crappy section 8 apartment.

Women have got this benefit forever, and they continue to. I missed out on the majority of my daughter's life, paid tons in child support, while my ex wife forced my daughter to live in filth. All the while every time I brought it to court, I lost.

You made a contract you shouldn't have in hindsight. Happens to the best of us.

#sigh
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01-05-2016, 05:00 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2016 05:04 PM by Gilgamesh.)
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 04:05 PM)BnW Wrote:  Single fathers, on average, have higher incomes than single mothers and are far less likely to be living at or below the poverty line—24% versus 43%. Single fathers are also somewhat less educated than single mothers, older and more likely to be white.

So, single dads are likely to be less educated and earn more money. Go figure.

Maybe it's because men overwhelmingly work the most dangerous jobs in society, which while not requiring education, do have a considerable premium. They're earning more at the cost of being 93% of workplace deaths. Huh.

Quote: if you're not seeing women getting the short end of the stick, I'd say that's willful on your part.

You don't think just saying it will make me believe it, so for who's benefit did you say this lol?
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01-05-2016, 05:10 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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01-05-2016, 05:10 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
^ something is wrong with my post above.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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01-05-2016, 05:14 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
One other reason (that is circular) for women being called home for the kids care is; women do make less on the whole so when a decision has to be made on who's to go home many times the decision is financial. So she doesn't make as good as money because she gets called home and she gets called home because she doesn't make as good of money. Nice little anchor there.

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01-05-2016, 05:26 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 04:49 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 04:41 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I'd rather be low income and have my daughter than be middle class and pay child support pushing me into low income, and only see my daughter twice a month, like I did for 14 years.

Thankfully she turned 16 and was able to decide where she wants to live and I've had her for the last year.

Even though I made more money, had a house, nice cars, a good career, the judge gave my ex wife custody even after she failed two drug tests, refused to work and received welfare and lived in a crappy section 8 apartment.

Women have got this benefit forever, and they continue to. I missed out on the majority of my daughter's life, paid tons in child support, while my ex wife forced my daughter to live in filth. All the while every time I brought it to court, I lost.

You made a contract you shouldn't have in hindsight. Happens to the best of us.

I don't think that's fair. Child support, custody, etc. are not "contracts". You can come to your own agreement but it's not a contract, and in most instances you have it forced upon you by a court, whether you agree with it or not. So, giving him the "you fucked up response" is both inaccurate and just meanspirited.

The reality is that for many years men got fucked in these situations. The laws have changed considerably in a lot of states but I honestly have no idea how ubiquitous that is nation wide. It could be LDH had a shitty lawyer who screwed him over, or it could be that he's not telling us the whole story, but it could also be he lived in a state who hasn't caught up to the 21st century.

I think his comments about "women are never equal" was of epic douchebag proportions but I don't wish losing your kid on anyone.

Moving on....

(01-05-2016 05:00 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Maybe it's because men overwhelmingly work the most dangerous jobs in society, which while not requiring education, do have a considerable premium. They're earning more at the cost of being 93% of workplace deaths. Huh.

Maybe but I'd like to see some kind of study or data to back that up.

(01-05-2016 05:00 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  You don't think just saying it will make me believe it, so for who's benefit did you say this lol?

If we're going to start questioning the efficacy of internet arguments, we're going to end up bringing the whole system down. Of course I expect my obnoxious comment to help you see the light. That's how the internet works, right?

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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