Do you like feminism?
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01-05-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 05:26 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 04:49 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You made a contract you shouldn't have in hindsight. Happens to the best of us.

I don't think that's fair. Child support, custody, etc. are not "contracts". You can come to your own agreement but it's not a contract, and in most instances you have it forced upon you by a court, whether you agree with it or not. So, giving him the "you fucked up response" is both inaccurate and just meanspirited.

The reality is that for many years men got fucked in these situations. The laws have changed considerably in a lot of states but I honestly have no idea how ubiquitous that is nation wide. It could be LDH had a shitty lawyer who screwed him over, or it could be that he's not telling us the whole story, but it could also be he lived in a state who hasn't caught up to the 21st century.

What laws are you specifically referring to?


Quote:Maybe but I'd like to see some kind of study or data to back that up.

92% for the year of 2014:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.nr0.htm
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01-05-2016, 06:11 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 05:38 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  What laws are you specifically referring to?

Laws on how divorced couples are to split assets and custody of children. Family law used to be very women centric in terms of kids. A lot of these laws stem from a period of time when men went to work and women stayed home. If there was a divorce, the woman got the kids, assets and a monthly alimony check and fathers had very few rights towards their children. Society has moved past the time when men were simply sperm donors but I don't think all the states have caught up. I know very little about family law so it's possible by now they all have. I really don't know.

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03-05-2016, 01:40 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(28-04-2016 01:30 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Feminists are the opposite of sexists.

If you think sexism is bullshit, congrats, you're a feminist (in addition to whatever other monikers or hats you'd like to wear, like egalitarian).

See that's the thing. You can call me what you like. I don't and won't identify as a feminist. You obviously define feminism in its traditional sense. I do not. I define it by the actions and words of those who claim that title. I can only see more and more feminism is moving from the realm of philosophy into the realm of religion.
"Feminist" is every bit an antiquated term as "fireman."
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03-05-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(03-05-2016 01:40 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(28-04-2016 01:30 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Feminists are the opposite of sexists.

If you think sexism is bullshit, congrats, you're a feminist (in addition to whatever other monikers or hats you'd like to wear, like egalitarian).

See that's the thing. You can call me what you like. I don't and won't identify as a feminist. You obviously define feminism in its traditional sense. I do not. I define it by the actions and words of those who claim that title. I can only see more and more feminism is moving from the realm of philosophy into the realm of religion.
"Feminist" is every bit an antiquated term as "fireman."

Then wouldn't EvolutionKills or others here using it and their actions be the defining of the term then?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-05-2016, 03:42 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  ^ something is wrong with my post above.

There must be a mistake in all the quoting.


(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  A. Because your the minority of people who have different preferences does not mean that the rule is false.

B. What I am not saying is that men while only date women for their looks and women will only date men for their money, but they like things like that, as it is the most important thing on the list for both.

A. I never said the rule is false. I'm just saying that the exceptions seem to be numerous enough for the rules to not count as an argument for what "most women" and "most men" act like and why.

B. Again, one more meaningless, baseless generalization.

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/m...arts.shtml

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/why...1xdn0.html

Yeah... ok? The only actual study I see here that is not an anecdote or a personal opinion is the one that says that many women in their 30s were single 10 years ago. So? How does that prove that rich women don't need men?

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Yes I have seen ugly men with hot women, but I have never seen vice versa. Not saying ugly women are never with hot men, but I have not seen it. However me not seeing it doesn't make it tru.

Perhaps you have seen it but did not notice. After all, as a guy, you'll probably find average girls attractive but you won't find average guys attractive.

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 03:30 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  You don't see many rich ugly women with hot men because you don't generally see many rich women in general (only on TV, but does that count?).

Yes, they are real after all.

Hate to be the one to have to break it to you, but no, life on TV is not real life.

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Exception to the rule. You saying that is no different than me going tetrapods have four limbs and can walk, than listing the small percentage that don't and saying "Therefor tetrapodia is not a taxonomic classification." Like that, we are speaking on a majority level. The minority should not be ignored I agree, but trying to say the minorities existent means the majorities is false is wrong.

I never, ever claimed that (the part in bold).
Your whole argument was against the idea that if social constructs were different and did not limit what a man or a woman is supposed to do or be like, people would start doing things that are not characteristic of their gender. Let me remind you:

Quote:
(30-04-2016 08:00 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I honestly believe androgyny and beauty would be pervasive for both sexes, if you took away institutionalized sexism.

No it wouldn't thanks to sexual selection. There is a reason women like men who are strong and rich, and that is because those imply protection and comfort. Men like women who look good, because that implies that his offspring will be healthy. Like it or not, this works for the species and there for won't go away naturally.

If you take into account all those "minorities", your argument is rendered useless.
Also keep in mind that a few decades ago women were not supposed to wear pants, or that in some cultures men wear makeup or skirts.

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 03:30 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Men feel pressured to have a "hot girlfriend". When they tell their friends they're dating a girl, the first question they ask is "is she hot?" or questions about her boobs or butt.

What is competing? What is testostrone?, what is 1,000,000 years of natural selection.

I never claimed otherwise. My argument still stands.

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Sure, but how often does that happen? Not saying it doesn't, cause it does and can, but is it common? Are 40% relationships like that? If not, then this was pointless to use trying to refute that men like looks, and women

Are 40% of relationships bad? That may very well be true, yes. We very often fool ourselves thinking we want to be with a certain person, but we really don't. Have you seen those divorce rates?

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  A. on the poor and disabled, that is if you assume I said rich and healthy. I said can provide protection and comfort. I never said that poor men and disable men can't provide protection and comfort. I used women liking rich as an example for protection and comfort. If I only meant rich I would have said rich. So yes a poor and disabled person can provide protection and comfort.

B. Define unfit? Because if we are talking in terms of evolution, an unfit person can't date by the standard. Second he has a date, he is not unfit.

C. What do you mean incapable-of offering protection? There are many ways to provide protection. If a man buys a house that has sturdy locks, or can use a gun, hell even hide the family, he can in fact protect the family. A man incapable to protect himself would die off or those who don't, tend to already have a family

"Unfit" was the wrong word. Never mind that.

If what you say is true, then weak, disabled, poor, mean, cold, men with no skills in anything (=incapable of offering protection and comfort) would never find a wife. Are you trying to tell me that all women who are in a relationship right now feel protected and comfortable or expect to be so by their boyfriends/husbands?

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  I can agree. I will say what I said earlier, I will acknowledge those who go off the beaten path in order to expand my understanding, which is why I have not said your anecdotes are wrong. But, like the tetrapodia example, don't try to use the exception to refute the rule.

See above. I'm not trying to refute the rule.

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well we do. I will grant we don't like all the same sugar or fats, but we do it sugars and fats. Whether it comes from eating an apple and steak or a cake, both provide sugar and fat.

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well if we were than we wouldn't be here, cautious would be a better word.

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Sure, but again, they don't speak for the majority.

Again, see above.

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  No it isn't. It is still smaller, let me use an example.

In a game called pokemon some moves have the accuracy of 80%. Now this moves hit way more often than they miss. However they do miss sometimes.

In short, 20% isn't large. Maybe if it was 30 sure.

It's a minority, but not an insignificant one, and that is the point I'm trying to make.

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Does all research know anything for certainty? We just go off the factors and patterns, but there is a reason this can be falsified.

Sure, but not all studies are presented by saying "well, this whole study might be totally wrong, but yeah".

(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Having a homosexual experience does not make you a homosexual.

[Image: kinseyscale.png]

Here is the kinsey scale. As you can see there are a level of sexuality. Now if the men your brother meet had 1 homosexual experience, than they would be a 1 on the scale, meaning they are heterosexual but had a homosexual experience. This doesn't mean all of the men your brother meet were homosexual.

Jesus, I never said that. But again, let me remind you:

(30-04-2016 08:21 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(30-04-2016 08:00 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  As well as the notion that you're gay by default and you have to "come out of the closet" as gay. THAT PROVES beyond any reasonable doubt, that there's a major systemic, ingrained problem in our society, where people have to expect you to be straight. It's a problem I feel pretty bad about.

Well think about it, how many people on the planet are homosexual? Not many, they make up less than 10% of our population, and that is with both gays and lesbians. We do expect people to be straight, but what is important is that when someone comes out as gay, they will be accepted for it.


(01-05-2016 05:10 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Back to the scale. Now if you noticed that not only do heterosexuals have homosexual tendencies, but homosexuals also have heterosexual tendencies. Now some heterosexual people are gay and don't realize it, but at the same time I can say some people who think they are gay are heterosexual. It works both ways. So for all we know the number could be higher, but the number could be lower. But so far the data has collected that so far homosexuals only make 10-20% of the human population. So I can agree that the numbers could change and if they do they should, but It could end up saying homosexuals are 50/50 with heterosexuals, or that they could only make up 2% of the population. So as far as the evidence shows they are the minority.

That was my reply to this ^
Why didn't Ancient Greeks expect anyone to "come out as gay"? Why weren't homosexuals shunned?

Sexuality is a continuum. It's not like you either are or are not a homosexual. If anything, the people who are 100% straight must be the minority here.

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04-05-2016, 02:44 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
Born that way. Although the kids seem to call it egalitarianism these days.

(28-04-2016 01:37 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Case in point, Anita Sarkesian thinks...

Case dismissed.

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04-05-2016, 03:27 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
I don't waste time looking at the social differences between genders. You're a human being. The end.

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04-05-2016, 06:25 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(28-04-2016 01:20 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I've been coming around. I had a period where I followed a lot of sargon of akkad, shoe on head, amazing atheist videos. I think that I always had core feminist values, such as gender norms being a social construct. I like how feminists are so pro gay, pro trans, pro race, open minded about gender. The only thing I don't like are the opinions they hold about fat people. Being fat is unhealthy and I don't promote unhealthy eating habits. I'd probably date a feminist, they seem to hold a lot of the same values as I do.

I disagree. The loudest of the feminists are not about equality. They want women to earn more money than men do. They are also about women can do any job they want, while any man that wants to take care of kids must be a pedophile. They really don't want equality, they want every advantage.
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04-05-2016, 06:42 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(04-05-2016 06:25 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I disagree. The loudest of the feminists are not about equality. They want women to earn more money than men do.

Although I stand by what I said before, I do get a chuckle out of the really crazy ones:




(04-05-2016 06:25 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  They are also about women can do any job they want, while any man that wants to take care of kids must be a pedophile. They really don't want equality, they want every advantage.

Then they must really hate me since I'm studying to become a kindergarden teacher, as a side job while I'm working on becoming a pro drummer. Infact, they'll hate me even more since there are almost no male kindergarden teachers in my country, and are highly sought after.

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04-05-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(04-05-2016 06:42 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  
(04-05-2016 06:25 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I disagree. The loudest of the feminists are not about equality. They want women to earn more money than men do.

Although I stand by what I said before, I do get a chuckle out of the really crazy ones:




(04-05-2016 06:25 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  They are also about women can do any job they want, while any man that wants to take care of kids must be a pedophile. They really don't want equality, they want every advantage.

Then they must really hate me since I'm studying to become a kindergarden teacher, as a side job while I'm working on becoming a pro drummer. Infact, they'll hate me even more since there are almost no male kindergarden teachers in my country, and are highly sought after.

You're a metal head too, right? Misogynist scum!
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