Do you like feminism?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-05-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(06-05-2016 10:31 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-05-2016 09:57 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Mens rights activist Karen Straughan everybody (Trigger warning: Woman with internalised misogyny):




Which bathroom does she use?

Yes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Gilgamesh's post
07-05-2016, 05:34 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(06-05-2016 09:55 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  What is being masculine? Or being boys? Or being feminine/girls for that matter?

Who is the arbiter of what these labels are?

If men mostly do it, then it is considered masculine, if females mostly do it, than it is considered feminine. Most boys play rough, even the quiet shy ones will.

And the arbiter of these labels are humans themselves. Humans label things based patterns they see. Men and women are different, so are their choices and preferences. Add on top of that the fact that men rarely are feminine and women are rarely masculine, you get the labels. We do it with everything.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Metazoa Zeke's post
07-05-2016, 05:45 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(05-05-2016 05:30 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm not sure why you desire massive group connections upon trends but when the main news story sources run stories, that generally represents that news source. Not every element or statement is some overarching representation of a message.

It seems those who are heavily against the come as if there is some grand or this notion of a potential purity in the world of anything. Perhaps some are the types of people who fondly value the notions of purity/sanctity in things. I wouldn't know from limited action but also see no reason to correlate any idea into other aspects of larger ideas. Not everything needs to represent something else.

I bolded a few element of your post to make a point.

Quote:trend
trend/
noun
noun: trend; plural noun: trends

1.
a general direction in which something is developing or changing.
"an upward trend in sales and profit margins"
synonyms: tendency, movement, drift, swing, shift, course, current, direction, progression, inclination, leaning;

Ya see where you went wrong there? When multiple sources run the same article on the same issue with the same rhetoric and direction it can be said to be a trend.

Quote:main·stream
ˈmānˌstrēm/
noun
noun: mainstream

1.
the ideas, attitudes, or activities that are regarded as normal or conventional; the dominant trend in opinion, fashion, or the arts.
"companies that are bringing computers to the mainstream of American life"
jazz that is neither traditional nor modern, based on the 1930s swing style and consisting especially of solo improvisation on chord sequences.
noun: mainstream jazz; plural noun: mainstream jazzes

adjective
adjective: mainstream

1.
belonging to or characteristic of the mainstream.
"mainstream politics"
synonyms: normal, conventional, ordinary, orthodox, conformist, accepted, established, recognized, common, usual, prevailing, popular
"the mainstream audience may not be ready for these graphic sculptures"

So when multiple mainstream sources report the same idea, i.e. Air-conditioning is sexist to woman cuase men, It can be safely argued that it is the mainstream idea in feminism especially as the writers of said articles do in fact identifyas feminist and proselytize feminist dogma

Your conflating what is observable in real world feminism with what you see as the idea of feminism. its not some Grand Conspiracy by evil sexist men who just want to keep woman down.

Address the argument presented instead of crying conspiracy theory. You are in fact acting just like the feminist outlined in the post that refuse to accept that feminism can do any wrong and that it is all good.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Blackhand293's post
08-05-2016, 06:35 AM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2016 07:15 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Do you like feminism?
(07-05-2016 05:45 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  
(05-05-2016 05:30 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm not sure why you desire massive group connections upon trends but when the main news story sources run stories, that generally represents that news source. Not every element or statement is some overarching representation of a message.

It seems those who are heavily against the come as if there is some grand or this notion of a potential purity in the world of anything. Perhaps some are the types of people who fondly value the notions of purity/sanctity in things. I wouldn't know from limited action but also see no reason to correlate any idea into other aspects of larger ideas. Not everything needs to represent something else.

I bolded a few element of your post to make a point.

Quote:trend
trend/
noun
noun: trend; plural noun: trends

1.
a general direction in which something is developing or changing.
"an upward trend in sales and profit margins"
synonyms: tendency, movement, drift, swing, shift, course, current, direction, progression, inclination, leaning;

Ya see where you went wrong there? When multiple sources run the same article on the same issue with the same rhetoric and direction it can be said to be a trend.

Quote:main·stream
ˈmānˌstrēm/
noun
noun: mainstream

1.
the ideas, attitudes, or activities that are regarded as normal or conventional; the dominant trend in opinion, fashion, or the arts.
"companies that are bringing computers to the mainstream of American life"
jazz that is neither traditional nor modern, based on the 1930s swing style and consisting especially of solo improvisation on chord sequences.
noun: mainstream jazz; plural noun: mainstream jazzes

adjective
adjective: mainstream

1.
belonging to or characteristic of the mainstream.
"mainstream politics"
synonyms: normal, conventional, ordinary, orthodox, conformist, accepted, established, recognized, common, usual, prevailing, popular
"the mainstream audience may not be ready for these graphic sculptures"

So when multiple mainstream sources report the same idea, i.e. Air-conditioning is sexist to woman cuase men, It can be safely argued that it is the mainstream idea in feminism especially as the writers of said articles do in fact identifyas feminist and proselytize feminist dogma

Your conflating what is observable in real world feminism with what you see as the idea of feminism. its not some Grand Conspiracy by evil sexist men who just want to keep woman down.

Address the argument presented instead of crying conspiracy theory. You are in fact acting just like the feminist outlined in the post that refuse to accept that feminism can do any wrong and that it is all good.

Dominant trend is a notion of mainstream... multiple sources equals what? 100,000 million people or like 20 people? Where is the data connection in that? We have 7 billion people who range in millions of points of view. A consistent process between people united by anything doesn't happen often. If that data set is equate to safely arguing to someone I wouldn't take their statistics gathering with a ounce of respect. How the statistical data is acquired should be taken seriously.

It's like you're taking if someone says something, that amounts to more than someone saying things. Hell someone saying something doesn't even give great reason to take it as worthwhile of truth of what they think. Again I'd be hyper skeptical of any claim of shared ideology or ism and equally skeptical of counter... And it's not some middle ground exists to everything stance, it's just a refusal to accept someone assuming something as a good argument

I've blatantly said up front all ism or any label a person generates will contain flaw, failure, and wrongness. Though generating perceptions on apparent grouping and connections between anything is also entangled immense flaw.

The argument would be... the only one I've seen is saying an argument is false because it's inconsistent. But I dont see that as any point of any value. All groups or idea held by drives of people become that.

Consistency and purity in direction aren't possible in human function. So I fail to see what the alleged desired scenario or argument contrast would be laud out as.

When it boils down, do plenty of feminist Writers, femminist mainstream news writers, feminist bloggers, feminist debaters, feminist presenters, feminist video creators, and feminist speakers use logical fallacies, assumptions, dogmatic notions, poor data mining, degrading tones, etc. Yes. Yes they do. Is that supposed to mean something significant?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-05-2016, 06:41 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(07-05-2016 05:34 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(06-05-2016 09:55 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  What is being masculine? Or being boys? Or being feminine/girls for that matter?

Who is the arbiter of what these labels are?

If men mostly do it, then it is considered masculine, if females mostly do it, than it is considered feminine. Most boys play rough, even the quiet shy ones will.

And the arbiter of these labels are humans themselves. Humans label things based patterns they see. Men and women are different, so are their choices and preferences. Add on top of that the fact that men rarely are feminine and women are rarely masculine, you get the labels. We do it with everything.

Then wouldn't the perceptions of these groups be different too if these groups are different. Surely you don't think these are objective or static concepts right? Could not perceptions of what we see be flawed based on bad data.

Do we do it with everything by choice or by desire? What defines rarely as a total? Are these contrasts judged universally across the entire sir is or among arbitrary lines? It sounds more like defining a morality than a bilogical/sociological detailed study of humanity.

I'm not saying it's false men lean x way abd females y way, but the alleged notable divisions sound like the statements of those who know what objectively is right and wrong. Why should females or feminists be trusted to say it's something or why should someone of some other mindset have a trust factor to say it's x something?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-05-2016, 08:27 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(05-05-2016 10:38 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(05-05-2016 08:30 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Ok. Fine. We can have an srguement about whether feminism is being hijacked and what the impact might be and might even be convinced to see it your way. My ultimate point is that there is hypocracy right in the name. Feminists demanded that all gender bias terms be abandoned. That's blatant hypocracy. That's not just a little hypocracy within the movement. If this cannot be changed or even expected then I expect "fireman" to be considered politically correct.
I have no issues with anyone who demands freedom and equality but I won't be told that the term "feminism" is acceptable while "fireman" is not.

It blows my mind that people refuse to see this.

They see it. The feminazi's don't care. They are not after equality. They have wanted the superior position for a long time.

This is essentially the point. I won't say they are necessarily "feminazis" but I'm skeptical of their claim that they want equality.
The fact that they won't abandon the term doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
Modern feminism all to often reminds me of religion.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-05-2016, 09:53 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(08-05-2016 08:27 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(05-05-2016 10:38 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  They see it. The feminazi's don't care. They are not after equality. They have wanted the superior position for a long time.

This is essentially the point. I won't say they are necessarily "feminazis" but I'm skeptical of their claim that they want equality.
The fact that they won't abandon the term doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
Modern feminism all to often reminds me of religion.

Modern anti-feminism all to often reminds me of religion. Drinking Beverage

[Image: dnw9krH.jpg?4]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-05-2016, 12:07 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(08-05-2016 06:35 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(07-05-2016 05:45 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  I bolded a few element of your post to make a point.


Ya see where you went wrong there? When multiple sources run the same article on the same issue with the same rhetoric and direction it can be said to be a trend.


So when multiple mainstream sources report the same idea, i.e. Air-conditioning is sexist to woman cuase men, It can be safely argued that it is the mainstream idea in feminism especially as the writers of said articles do in fact identifyas feminist and proselytize feminist dogma

Your conflating what is observable in real world feminism with what you see as the idea of feminism. its not some Grand Conspiracy by evil sexist men who just want to keep woman down.

Address the argument presented instead of crying conspiracy theory. You are in fact acting just like the feminist outlined in the post that refuse to accept that feminism can do any wrong and that it is all good.

Dominant trend is a notion of mainstream... multiple sources equals what? 100,000 million people or like 20 people? Where is the data connection in that? We have 7 billion people who range in millions of points of view. A consistent process between people united by anything doesn't happen often. If that data set is equate to safely arguing to someone I wouldn't take their statistics gathering with a ounce of respect. How the statistical data is acquired should be taken seriously.

It's like you're taking if someone says something, that amounts to more than someone saying things. Hell someone saying something doesn't even give great reason to take it as worthwhile of truth of what they think. Again I'd be hyper skeptical of any claim of shared ideology or ism and equally skeptical of counter... And it's not some middle ground exists to everything stance, it's just a refusal to accept someone assuming something as a good argument

I've blatantly said up front all ism or any label a person generates will contain flaw, failure, and wrongness. Though generating perceptions on apparent grouping and connections between anything is also entangled immense flaw.

The argument would be... the only one I've seen is saying an argument is false because it's inconsistent. But I dont see that as any point of any value. All groups or idea held by drives of people become that.

Consistency and purity in direction aren't possible in human function. So I fail to see what the alleged desired scenario or argument contrast would be laud out as.

When it boils down, do plenty of feminist Writers, femminist mainstream news writers, feminist bloggers, feminist debaters, feminist presenters, feminist video creators, and feminist speakers use logical fallacies, assumptions, dogmatic notions, poor data mining, degrading tones, etc. Yes. Yes they do. Is that supposed to mean something significant?

Solipsism and equivocation does no one good.

Its a response to the very claims in this thread that "true feminists" are not misandrist and that they are the mainstream and majority. When it is demonstrated that the vast majority of them are misandrist, and have their views broadcasted to millions, and that they make up the majority.

Fringes can not equal main-strain. That was my contention that seems to have gone missing in this exchange. You can not be both fringe and mainstream at the same time, its a massive contradiction in terms

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-05-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(08-05-2016 09:53 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 08:27 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  This is essentially the point. I won't say they are necessarily "feminazis" but I'm skeptical of their claim that they want equality.
The fact that they won't abandon the term doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
Modern feminism all to often reminds me of religion.

Modern anti-feminism all to often reminds me of religion. Drinking Beverage
*EDITED*
How very feminist of you, can't rebut so call names, also very rich coming from some who claims woman only disparage other woman because men make them do it.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Blackhand293's post
08-05-2016, 01:09 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
@Blackhand293

I have read your points, and I find them all very, very weak. In fact, half of them seem to be based on quote mining and decontextualisations of the writter argument like in the case of your « men shroedinger rapists» and your accusation of feminist hating on the gay community (there is a substancial fringe group who actually hate on trans people unfortunately). You seem to also have a strange relationship with the word sexist, mysoginist and mysandrist. This is in no way surprising or uncommon. The former is frequently missunderstood and the two other vastly over-used and missused both by feminists and anti-feminists. I personnaly refrain to use those two since most people who are mysoginist and are also mysandrist or vice-versa depending on the context and situation.

Feminism is pretty much like Christianity or Communism, there is dozen of schools of thought all of them with their own epistemologie (or at least their twist on it), their pet project, their faults, their qualities and intestine wars. Feminism as a whole isn't against men. In fact, one of the great weakness of feminism, that is being critiqued by some new feminists school since the late 80's, is that it largely ignores men. As I mentionned in a earlier post, thanks to social media, the constant critique and demands of the feminist mouvement can feel threatening to the group of people who feel like they face constant critique (even if technically they were never the subject of the critique in the first place). Feminism has critique hundreds of structure, behavior, laws and representation of sexism and even developped tools to elliminate them, study them and contextualise them in terms of a power relationship. Yet, since feminism is born out of women's rights mouvement in the western world it has failed to use those tools for a very long time to tackle the same issues amongst men. It never challenged how the classical Victorian and Christian patriarchal system affected men's rights to self determination, self expression and representation. This led to the creation of the Men's Right mouvement in the 70's, largely sympathetic to feminism and using the same epistemologie, to adress those issues (unfortunately, now, the Men's Right mouvement is mostly known for its reactionnary fringe who troll on blogs and social media).

If you are skeptical of the claims of feminist wanting equality, instead of searching clues amongst a sea of blogs, articles, books and essay that might be contradictory, why don't you ask one of your choice to tell you what they mean by this exactly and how they intend to do it?

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: