Do you like feminism?
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09-05-2016, 11:19 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(09-05-2016 06:40 AM)epronovost Wrote:  @Blackhand293

Women average physical fitness compared to men is completly unrelated to the question of their role in the military. Here is a direct quote from the US marines webstie: «While the military has yet to allow women everywhere their male counterparts are allowed to go...»They are barred on the assumption that they aren't going to make the standards while they obviously, demonstrably can. Are women physically weaker than men on average? Yes, they are, but that doesn't prevent them from doing the job correctly and some to be eexecptionnaly strong, fast. tall, etc. Some police departement SWAT teams and the US marine infantrie corps aren't recruiting women based on their gender no matter their physical performances. They won't even test them before refusing. They consider women as improper for war despite the fact that women in combat zones have never been a liability.

This has already been answered many many times in this thread. Your straw-man is getting old.

(09-05-2016 06:40 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Men have less scholarship only, but they are of much less value. Most of the athlete scholarships are for men sports team, are of much greater value. In fact, the athletic scholarship are valued at about 10 times more important than the most important women scholarship in America: Miss America Pageant scholarship (and don't tell this one isn't a bit sexist).

Athletic Scholarships are not a male only thing. From primary/grade school onward there is a marking bias in favor of girls, where they get marked up and boys get marked down. [1].

(09-05-2016 06:40 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Women pay less taxes and have more programs dedicated to them because they have lower earnings and average wages and are more vulnerable to poverty. Twice more women then men are requiring food banks. Also, since women are in charge of children too in our society. Helping the women is helping the child more often than not. You wil notice that financial vulnerability links strongly with governement help.

For domestic violence shelter, the main issue is again financement. Most of their financement comes from the public and many men only violence shelter have been closed due to lack of money. Women finance 3 times more charities and NGO (but men give bigger amounts individualy). Of course, most people give money to subject that concerns them. If they have more money its not because there is conspiracy against men or that men are considered less important by society, but because women finance most of the show. This includes men shelters and cancer research.

Yes, and the government contributes the most to these programs, especially domestic violence shelters so in fact men do contribute more than woman to these things yet receive marked less support, for more input. That was why I highlighted the tax disparity. Woman Pay less in and get more out.

(09-05-2016 06:40 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Women not being required to sign for selective service isn't a priviledge. Its, again, because women are considered inept soldier much like physically handicaped persons. Fighting for you country in time of great need is supposed to be a priviledge and is definetly a source of power(note that the whole thing is probably going to be abolished so there is at least that).

Selective service/ Draft was a provision put in place when universal male suffrage came about, which contrary to popular belief was not long before Universal suffrage for all. It was seen in this way, men get the right to vote, but then have the responsibility to defend the country in order to maintain the right to vote, this was not extended to woman. In fact the woman who where in the anti-woman suffrage movement did so because they did not want the added responsibility of having to go t war.

(09-05-2016 06:40 AM)epronovost Wrote:  As for men criminal situation I agree with you. This is completly unfare and isn't due to feminism or anything like that though. Its due to the fact that men are faced by prejudice of their own when it comes to crime. The more the group you are identifiable with commits crime the harsher you are judged for that crime. Its completly unjust don't get me wrong, but feminism isn't to blame for this one. Working against prejudice will be necessary to achieve a greater justice.

I never blamed feminism for the sentencing gap, I blame gynocentrism, what I do contend is that feminism does nothing about it because they have done nothing about it yet are ostentatiously pro-equality. The gap benefits woman, to the point that a female teacher who raped her male student only got a 30 day jail sentence sentence and lo and behold no feminist outcry, where as if it where a man do you really believe that would have been the case?

(09-05-2016 06:40 AM)epronovost Wrote:  As for women, men and child rights you have a little bit of a missconception here there (even though your are globably correct). I would suggest you reading this http://amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachus..._Study.htm
According to this survey, men who actively seek child custody obtain joint or primary custody 70% of the time. Furthermore, the tender year doctrine was pushed by Christian feminism school of thought who believe and push for a seperate, but equal style of society. They are very unpopular amongt mainstream feminism since the start of the second wave due to their staunch support for biblical gender role. They were theones who pushed for the tender year doctrine and passed easily because iit fitted nicely in the cultural mold already present.

I have read that, the contention to that study still remains that to receive custody the father has to prove the mother unfit where as there is no burden for the mother in such cases, or she has to willingly comply and ask that custody be awarded to the father. That law was also ruled to be highly discriminatory based on gender, and the fact remains that Feminism was the root cause of that law, and in a previous post you claimed it was due to patriarchy, so which is it?

(09-05-2016 06:40 AM)epronovost Wrote:  That
Men commit more successful suicide because they use more violent method like hanging and gunshots, while women prefer poisonning. Attempt at suicide and bodily mutilation see a little bit more women than men suffering from it. This isn't a treatment difference issues.

The issue being that mens mental health is regarded as less important, and this also ties back to the social support nets available i.e 15 shelters vs 4000+. That is why I support groups such as the MHRM because they at least try do something. It ties to the statistic that in the UK, easier to get data for in this case, of homeless people are men and receive virtually no help. Homelessness is a gendered issue.

(09-05-2016 06:40 AM)epronovost Wrote:  As for men and rape cases, this might be true in the US. If its the case, yes, its concerning, but the fact remains that over 70% of all sexual agression (from rape to gropping) are directed at women. While feminist are aware men undereport rape commited against them due to fear of being repressed and re-victimised, its difficult to assess their real level of sexual violence committed against them. Again the representation of men in power has been pointed as problem for reporting crime and distress.In Canada, there is no such thing as rape. All sexual agression are classified under the sexual agression crime and the worst one remain sexual agression by sodomie, a crime that mostly affect gay men according to surveys. Again, feminism has been very critical of tour specific rape culture which includes rape on men and, especially, the shaming of its victims.

Are you sure feminism and its depiction of a rape culture, its redefinition of what sexual assault is and they pro woman bias in courts don't also contribute towards it?

That title IX, the legislation used by Universities, sets a lower bar of evidence for sexual assault cases than criminal courts, a preponderance of evidence standard rather than beyond a reasonable doubt, and regard the plaintiff in these cases as guilty until proven innocent may have some role in that? See Duke Lacrosse Case,U-Va Case, Matress Girl, The case of a blacked out student being accused of rape, and of course the alledged consensual rape of a girl.

Until such time as the evidence points to the fact that feminist care about men as much as they claim to, I will not abide it and give all my support to the MRHM, a movement that actually tries to help men.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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09-05-2016, 11:21 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(09-05-2016 10:22 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Similarly, feminists will demand that there be an equal amount of men and women in cushy executive positions but not mention a single word about doing the same for the shitty, dangerous and back-breaking jobs that are overwhelmingly done by men.

Those are typically done by illegal wetbacks here. They work hard. They work cheap. What's not to like?

#sigh
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09-05-2016, 11:46 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(09-05-2016 08:15 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Things I dislike about feminism:
Social justice warriors
-Stupid ideas, including but not limited to;
"micro aggressions"
"rape culture"
"patriarchy"
The fact that modern day feminism can actually be misandry
"objectifying women"
safe spaces
"cultural appropriation"
"trigger warnings"
"check your privilege"
body positive movement

Yes, there's a lot of extremely stupid things, regarding so called "third wave feminism". So much so, that I wouldn't even call that feminism, I'd just call it insanity.

Things I like about feminism:
Historically pro women's rights
pro women's health
pro gay
pro trans
pro multiculturalism
pro race (even though race and culture aren't exclusively women's issues
Heart is in the right place
Believes that gender is a social construct
Believes that culture is blinded by heterosexual norms and heteronormality
Anti mental health discrimination
generally left wing

I'd prefer to just call myself an egalitarian tbh. I mean, that's basically what any self respecting progressive is, is an egalitarian. I mean, there's some fucking stupid things about modern feminism, but tbh I feel more comfortable with wacky social justice warriors than I do fascist pigs.

I really do believe in the concept of heteronormality, in the sense that we live in a culture where stereotypical straight roles are enforced, making homosexuality more of a novelty and more taboo. I really do believe that even in this day and age, homosexuals aren't taken seriously, they're still in stereotypical campy roles in television, most people still have no idea what gay people are actually like. I believe that masculinity is expected of men, in a large part of the world. So yeah, I agree with feminists on that.

I mostly agree with you on many of the points you raise I do however have to point out a few things.

(09-05-2016 08:15 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Anti mental health discrimination

In a highly gendered way yes, until sex and gender play no role in who gets helped I can not call them for equality.

(09-05-2016 08:15 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  pro race (even though race and culture aren't exclusively women's issues

I have lost count the amount of times I have heard feminists claim being white grants privilege that is unearned and this ties into SJW's

(09-05-2016 08:15 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Believes that gender is a social construct

Social Constructionism tends to ignore the biological basis for anything that does not fit the narrative. I suggest you looking to the work of Dr Gad Saad, a leading mind in the field of evolutionary psychology.

(09-05-2016 08:15 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Believes that culture is blinded by heterosexual norms and heteronormality

Heterosexual norms are just that because the overwhelming majority of the world is heterosexual. Homosexuals are a minority. It is not in anyway bigoted to say so. What is bigoted and that I agree with is that rights should not be denied based on what you are, this how ever is not a uniquely feminist ideal.

Culture is influenced as much by environment as it is by biology, it is not a purely social construct. To use the analogy of a cake( I love baking so pardon its use here) When all your ingredients are separate, you can point to them and say this is the eggs flour etc., but once its all mixed in to the final product you can not.

Culture is much the same it is made up of many different things, some of which can be pointed to, which in the analogy of the cake would be like the icing i.e. clothing, but allot of it is connected to other things such as availability of food resources, how that affects the diet and how in turn diet affects our biology.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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09-05-2016, 12:04 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(09-05-2016 10:22 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Similarly, feminists will demand that there be an equal amount of men and women in cushy executive positions but not mention a single word about doing the same for the shitty, dangerous and back-breaking jobs that are overwhelmingly done by men.

Well they just want the power without responsibility.

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09-05-2016, 01:02 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(09-05-2016 11:46 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  
(09-05-2016 08:15 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Things I dislike about feminism:
Social justice warriors
-Stupid ideas, including but not limited to;
"micro aggressions"
"rape culture"
"patriarchy"
The fact that modern day feminism can actually be misandry
"objectifying women"
safe spaces
"cultural appropriation"
"trigger warnings"
"check your privilege"
body positive movement

Yes, there's a lot of extremely stupid things, regarding so called "third wave feminism". So much so, that I wouldn't even call that feminism, I'd just call it insanity.

Things I like about feminism:
Historically pro women's rights
pro women's health
pro gay
pro trans
pro multiculturalism
pro race (even though race and culture aren't exclusively women's issues
Heart is in the right place
Believes that gender is a social construct
Believes that culture is blinded by heterosexual norms and heteronormality
Anti mental health discrimination
generally left wing

I'd prefer to just call myself an egalitarian tbh. I mean, that's basically what any self respecting progressive is, is an egalitarian. I mean, there's some fucking stupid things about modern feminism, but tbh I feel more comfortable with wacky social justice warriors than I do fascist pigs.

I really do believe in the concept of heteronormality, in the sense that we live in a culture where stereotypical straight roles are enforced, making homosexuality more of a novelty and more taboo. I really do believe that even in this day and age, homosexuals aren't taken seriously, they're still in stereotypical campy roles in television, most people still have no idea what gay people are actually like. I believe that masculinity is expected of men, in a large part of the world. So yeah, I agree with feminists on that.

I mostly agree with you on many of the points you raise I do however have to point out a few things.

(09-05-2016 08:15 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Anti mental health discrimination

In a highly gendered way yes, until sex and gender play no role in who gets helped I can not call them for equality.

(09-05-2016 08:15 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  pro race (even though race and culture aren't exclusively women's issues

I have lost count the amount of times I have heard feminists claim being white grants privilege that is unearned and this ties into SJW's

(09-05-2016 08:15 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Believes that gender is a social construct

Social Constructionism tends to ignore the biological basis for anything that does not fit the narrative. I suggest you looking to the work of Dr Gad Saad, a leading mind in the field of evolutionary psychology.

(09-05-2016 08:15 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Believes that culture is blinded by heterosexual norms and heteronormality

Heterosexual norms are just that because the overwhelming majority of the world is heterosexual. Homosexuals are a minority. It is not in anyway bigoted to say so. What is bigoted and that I agree with is that rights should not be denied based on what you are, this how ever is not a uniquely feminist ideal.

Culture is influenced as much by environment as it is by biology, it is not a purely social construct. To use the analogy of a cake( I love baking so pardon its use here) When all your ingredients are separate, you can point to them and say this is the eggs flour etc., but once its all mixed in to the final product you can not.

Culture is much the same it is made up of many different things, some of which can be pointed to, which in the analogy of the cake would be like the icing i.e. clothing, but allot of it is connected to other things such as availability of food resources, how that affects the diet and how in turn diet affects our biology.
Of course there's reasons why culture has formed the way it is. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good though. The society we're living in shaped by humans, which is so subject to error, more than half the population of the world probably still thinks the sun revolves around the earth. So I would completely discount your arguments grounds for culture being shaped by human nature. I don't believe gender norms should influence anyone's lives at all. I believe men should embrace their feminine side, cross dress, and women should as well. I do believe however, that masculinity is a more dominating factor in society. I may be ignorant about this, but I think there's more stigma against men being feminine than women being masculine, but after seeing some of the footage of the transgender bathroom issue with cops arresting a woman for just looking like a man, I'd be willing to be the issue effects men and women equally. Gender norms need to be smashed.
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09-05-2016, 02:14 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(09-05-2016 01:02 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  
(09-05-2016 11:46 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  I mostly agree with you on many of the points you raise I do however have to point out a few things.


In a highly gendered way yes, until sex and gender play no role in who gets helped I can not call them for equality.


I have lost count the amount of times I have heard feminists claim being white grants privilege that is unearned and this ties into SJW's


Social Constructionism tends to ignore the biological basis for anything that does not fit the narrative. I suggest you looking to the work of Dr Gad Saad, a leading mind in the field of evolutionary psychology.


Heterosexual norms are just that because the overwhelming majority of the world is heterosexual. Homosexuals are a minority. It is not in anyway bigoted to say so. What is bigoted and that I agree with is that rights should not be denied based on what you are, this how ever is not a uniquely feminist ideal.

Culture is influenced as much by environment as it is by biology, it is not a purely social construct. To use the analogy of a cake( I love baking so pardon its use here) When all your ingredients are separate, you can point to them and say this is the eggs flour etc., but once its all mixed in to the final product you can not.

Culture is much the same it is made up of many different things, some of which can be pointed to, which in the analogy of the cake would be like the icing i.e. clothing, but allot of it is connected to other things such as availability of food resources, how that affects the diet and how in turn diet affects our biology.
Of course there's reasons why culture has formed the way it is. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good though. The society we're living in shaped by humans, which is so subject to error, more than half the population of the world probably still thinks the sun revolves around the earth. So I would completely discount your arguments grounds for culture being shaped by human nature. I don't believe gender norms should influence anyone's lives at all. I believe men should embrace their feminine side, cross dress, and women should as well. I do believe however, that masculinity is a more dominating factor in society. I may be ignorant about this, but I think there's more stigma against men being feminine than women being masculine, but after seeing some of the footage of the transgender bathroom issue with cops arresting a woman for just looking like a man, I'd be willing to be the issue effects men and women equally. Gender norms need to be smashed.

"but after seeing some of the footage of the transgender bathroom issue with cops arresting a woman for just looking like a man ":laughat: Holy shit, that actually happened? You just can't make this shit up.
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09-05-2016, 02:26 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
Yeah and apparently people are asking to see other people's genitalia now, just to "make sure" they're not transgender. Funny how this bill is causing infinitely more problems for everyone. Not only that, but apparently a Church was sending men into the women's bathroom at target to make them uncomfortable.
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09-05-2016, 02:34 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
Just stop skimping on the stall walls and have them go all the way to the floor. No problem with guys potentially bringing cameras in.
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09-05-2016, 02:40 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(09-05-2016 02:34 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Just stop skimping on the stall walls and have them go all the way to the floor. No problem with guys potentially bringing cameras in.

That's what the bars at my uni did. Male or female you just piss on the stainless steel wall and the drainage takes care of itself. Easy clean up with a power washer. .... wait .... Consider ... that's not what you were talking about was it?

#sigh
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09-05-2016, 06:01 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
Sounds like Crocodile Dundee is needed in bars again.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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