Do you like feminism?
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28-04-2016, 08:40 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
Depends on the feminist.

If by feminist, you mean egalitarian, then sure. I don't use the word to describe myself since I think its too female centric, and tends to imply that equality issues only affect women. But I wholly agree with egalitarianism.

But, if it means authoritarian, misandrist, spoilt brats infringing on others rights, and harassing men on college campuses, then no, they can fuck right off.

There's a lot of "no true Scotsman" bullshit going around about it all these days. I don't buy it... Feminism has always been left-wing, some are more left-wing than others. Eventually you get this kind of moral one-upmanship going on, where everyone tries to be more progressive or radical than everyone else, ratcheting up the rhetoric, until it turns into a hate movement.

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28-04-2016, 10:48 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(28-04-2016 03:01 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-04-2016 01:37 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Case in point, Anita Sarkesian thinks Princess Peach and her 'rescue the princess' routine is sexists. A lot of other gamers strongly disagree with her. Ideally she'd be allowed to maker her YouTube videos in peace, but she had to get death threats and get dox'd because of her opinions on video games. This is why we can't have nice things.
Anita Sarkeesian is disliked for being a political demagogue and blatant liar, not for having contentious opinions on Princess Peach.

For those who haven't heard of her before, Sarkeesian is the voice behind the YouTube series Tropes Vs. Women In Video Games (she is also the founder of the Feminist Frequency website, which is a cesspit of vitriol and sexism, but that's rather beside the point at the moment). These videos ostensibly serve to point out the blatant misogyny in video game storytelling today, and expose the modern game industry as incredibly corrupt and male-dominated.

In reality, Sarkeesian simply lies about the games she features, and often gets basic details wrong in such a manner that implies she hasn't actually played the games for herself (I believe she was also caught stealing footage from other YouTubers to present as her own, but it's been a while since I actually gave a damn about anything she did, so you may wish to check that). For example, I believe it was her Hitman video (or maybe Grand Theft Auto?) which claimed that the game was incredibly sexist because it featured a strip club where you could murder the female strippers. She conveniently forgot to mention the fact that there were male strippers present (and fully murderable) as well, because it doesn't fit her narrative.

She also blatantly robbed her Kickstarter backers of their money without producing the promised twelve-video series, among other things. So, while I don't support making death threats or anything of the sort, trying to paint her as an innocent victim labeled as a monster merely for being a feminist is completely inaccurate.

She's just a lying bitch, and people don't like her as a result of that. The fact that she happens to be a lying bitch who wears a hat labeled "FEMINIST" is almost entirely tangential.


Perhaps I wasn't being clear enough before. Regardless, I never paid much attention to her anyways, because I have a background in game design and I strongly disagreed with her initial offerings. So I just dismissed her and went about my merry little way, our disagreement wasn't something I was personally or emotionally invested in. Indeed, why should I be? She's a talking head on the internet. If I couldn't ignore them, I'd already have died thrice over from stomach ulcers and brain aneurysms while watching creationists or Fox News. I didn't wait around to observe the ensuing shit show, other than to note there was a flaming effigy; and death threats are never an acceptable rebuttal to someone's opinion (I'm pretty sure we get upset when Muslims do that too).

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29-04-2016, 12:00 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
My (absolutely gorgeous) friend and I (I'm not an unattractive woman) went to Walmart last Thursday night. I was wearing shorts and a button up shirt with my sleeves rolled up my forearms - certainly not a provocative outfit, and I shouldn't have to apologize for having nice legs. We were *followed* around the store by an employee, then he groped us with his eyes while we were in the checkout line, and he even walked outside continuing to stare as we loaded the groceries in her car. We were both incredibly uncomfortable.

I get cat called frequently when I walk to work and I'm just wearing my scrubs.

I went to the bar one night and my asshole date left me alone for about an hour. I had leggings on under my dress - its not like I had my tits and vagina hanging out with a sign that said free gropes. I had my ass grabbed multiple times by multiple men. To say I was upset with him for abandoning me there and failing to understand the issue is a massive understatement - "just tell them to stop." Umm, yeh, cause works with someone who feels entitled to violate a woman's body is going to politely desist...not. I shouldn't have to make a huge scene so I won't be inappropriately touched when I don't have a male escort present.

My brother had to tuck me in his coat at Big Spring Jam during the Incubus concert when I was in high school. I stopped going to concerts because of all the problems I've encountered.

Another time as a teen, I had a male coworker who drew a picture of what he thought I must look like naked, and told me my hips were filling out like my mother's (she worked in the same building at the time).

This is not acceptable, and yet it happens all the time. I'm actually rather shy, and I don't behave provocatively unless I'm making jokes in the presence of company with whom I feel safe and comfortable. I live in the southeastern United States - not Saudi Arabia.

Hell, I don't even engage in most debate threads on this site anymore. I'm not the only woman that's gotten threats because of daring to challenge a male.

The need for feminism and awareness of feminist issues is very real to me. I want to be socially equal. Just because i have the right to vote doesn't mean YAY we're all equal! I should be able to walk into a bar by myself and order a drink without being harassed, but that's not my reality. And this is not me being over sensitive about a man being friendly and saying hello - that would be welcome. Talking directly to my chest is not. Putting a hand on my thigh is not.

This doesn't make me a misandrist, I'm *also* an egalitarian. I'm asking to be treated as an equal, not greater than a man, but equal. The term feminist is appropriately this context because it is an area in which, as a woman, I'm *not* equal.

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29-04-2016, 12:25 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(29-04-2016 12:00 AM)Nurse Wrote:  My (absolutely gorgeous) friend and I (I'm not an unattractive woman) went to Walmart last Thursday night. I was wearing shorts and a button up shirt with my sleeves rolled up my forearms - certainly not a provocative outfit, and I shouldn't have to apologize for having nice legs. We were *followed* around the store by an employee, then he groped us with his eyes while we were in the checkout line, and he even walked outside continuing to stare as we loaded the groceries in her car. We were both incredibly uncomfortable.

I get cat called frequently when I walk to work and I'm just wearing my scrubs.

I went to the bar one night and my asshole date left me alone for about an hour. I had leggings on under my dress - its not like I had my tits and vagina hanging out with a sign that said free gropes. I had my ass grabbed multiple times by multiple men. To say I was upset with him for abandoning me there and failing to understand the issue is a massive understatement - "just tell them to stop." Umm, yeh, cause works with someone who feels entitled to violate a woman's body is going to politely desist...not. I shouldn't have to make a huge scene so I won't be inappropriately touched when I don't have a male escort present.

My brother had to tuck me in his coat at Big Spring Jam during the Incubus concert when I was in high school. I stopped going to concerts because of all the problems I've encountered.

Another time as a teen, I had a male coworker who drew a picture of what he thought I must look like naked, and told me my hips were filling out like my mother's (she worked in the same building at the time).

This is not acceptable, and yet it happens all the time. I'm actually rather shy, and I don't behave provocatively unless I'm making jokes in the presence of company with whom I feel safe and comfortable. I live in the southeastern United States - not Saudi Arabia.

Hell, I don't even engage in most debate threads on this site anymore. I'm not the only woman that's gotten threats because of daring to challenge a male.

The need for feminism and awareness of feminist issues is very real to me. I want to be socially equal. Just because i have the right to vote doesn't mean YAY we're all equal! I should be able to walk into a bar by myself and order a drink without being harassed, but that's not my reality. And this is not me being over sensitive about a man being friendly and saying hello - that would be welcome. Talking directly to my chest is not. Putting a hand on my thigh is not.

This doesn't make me a misandrist, I'm *also* an egalitarian. I'm asking to be treated as an equal, not greater than a man, but equal. The term feminist is appropriately this context because it is an area in which, as a woman, I'm *not* equal.

Fuck, if my mother heard me acting like that in any of those situations, she'd be very cross with me. Other people really don't get the concept of personal space? Dodgy

This is why I'm glad other people speak up, because I would never know women in these situations felt threatened, because it's never happened to me. I've never been groped at a bar, I've never been ogled in a store, I've never been solicited or been cat called; but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Being oblivious to discrimination doesn't make it go away, if anything it only helps perpetuate it.

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29-04-2016, 01:41 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(29-04-2016 12:00 AM)Nurse Wrote:  My (absolutely gorgeous) friend and I (I'm not an unattractive woman) went to Walmart last Thursday night. I was wearing shorts and a button up shirt with my sleeves rolled up my forearms - certainly not a provocative outfit, and I shouldn't have to apologize for having nice legs. We were *followed* around the store by an employee, then he groped us with his eyes while we were in the checkout line, and he even walked outside continuing to stare as we loaded the groceries in her car. We were both incredibly uncomfortable.

I get cat called frequently when I walk to work and I'm just wearing my scrubs.

I went to the bar one night and my asshole date left me alone for about an hour. I had leggings on under my dress - its not like I had my tits and vagina hanging out with a sign that said free gropes. I had my ass grabbed multiple times by multiple men. To say I was upset with him for abandoning me there and failing to understand the issue is a massive understatement - "just tell them to stop." Umm, yeh, cause works with someone who feels entitled to violate a woman's body is going to politely desist...not. I shouldn't have to make a huge scene so I won't be inappropriately touched when I don't have a male escort present.

My brother had to tuck me in his coat at Big Spring Jam during the Incubus concert when I was in high school. I stopped going to concerts because of all the problems I've encountered.

Another time as a teen, I had a male coworker who drew a picture of what he thought I must look like naked, and told me my hips were filling out like my mother's (she worked in the same building at the time).

This is not acceptable, and yet it happens all the time. I'm actually rather shy, and I don't behave provocatively unless I'm making jokes in the presence of company with whom I feel safe and comfortable. I live in the southeastern United States - not Saudi Arabia.

Hell, I don't even engage in most debate threads on this site anymore. I'm not the only woman that's gotten threats because of daring to challenge a male.

The need for feminism and awareness of feminist issues is very real to me. I want to be socially equal. Just because i have the right to vote doesn't mean YAY we're all equal! I should be able to walk into a bar by myself and order a drink without being harassed, but that's not my reality. And this is not me being over sensitive about a man being friendly and saying hello - that would be welcome. Talking directly to my chest is not. Putting a hand on my thigh is not.

This doesn't make me a misandrist, I'm *also* an egalitarian. I'm asking to be treated as an equal, not greater than a man, but equal. The term feminist is appropriately this context because it is an area in which, as a woman, I'm *not* equal.

I can empathise with that. I used to think 'creep' was just petty shaming used by women to describe men they don't like. Until I met one. 'Dude convinced himself that if a woman even looked at him it meant she wanted sex, and from there he would rationalise all sorts of over-assertive bahavior towards them. He also legit believed that blonde haired, blue eyed whites were genetically superior to other races, and would get visibly pissed when he saw white women with non-whites. Hell he even told me, a blue eyed white, that I had 'tainted' genetics, as evidenced by my dark brown hair.. I'm going off topic here lol.

-But-

I've had drunk women at social gatherings physically grope me without my consent. One persisted after I told her to stop. They presumed that because I am male, I must enjoy female advances a priori, and that I'm just being shy when I express otherwise.

Last year I was walking down the street at night when a female stranger approached me from the apartment building that I was passing by. She asked that I walk her home. She immediately started clinging to my arm before I even replied. My anwser was no, BTW. When I tried to get away she would grab me full-on and wrestle me to a stop (I couldve violently pushed her off of me but I didn't want to fuck her drunk ass up). Eventually she started striking me in the face. I had to restrain her by the wrists then make a run for it to get away. She chased after me, yelling, "what kind of man runs from a girl!"

Point is fucked up people who feel entitled to others bodies come in both sexes. By nature of being physically weaker, I imagine women have it worse in these situations, though. If a woman becomes physical with me, I have options available to me because I'm stronger. If a man becomes physical with a woman, she's at the mercy of his will.
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29-04-2016, 01:47 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(29-04-2016 01:41 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(29-04-2016 12:00 AM)Nurse Wrote:  My (absolutely gorgeous) friend and I (I'm not an unattractive woman) went to Walmart last Thursday night. I was wearing shorts and a button up shirt with my sleeves rolled up my forearms - certainly not a provocative outfit, and I shouldn't have to apologize for having nice legs. We were *followed* around the store by an employee, then he groped us with his eyes while we were in the checkout line, and he even walked outside continuing to stare as we loaded the groceries in her car. We were both incredibly uncomfortable.

I get cat called frequently when I walk to work and I'm just wearing my scrubs.

I went to the bar one night and my asshole date left me alone for about an hour. I had leggings on under my dress - its not like I had my tits and vagina hanging out with a sign that said free gropes. I had my ass grabbed multiple times by multiple men. To say I was upset with him for abandoning me there and failing to understand the issue is a massive understatement - "just tell them to stop." Umm, yeh, cause works with someone who feels entitled to violate a woman's body is going to politely desist...not. I shouldn't have to make a huge scene so I won't be inappropriately touched when I don't have a male escort present.

My brother had to tuck me in his coat at Big Spring Jam during the Incubus concert when I was in high school. I stopped going to concerts because of all the problems I've encountered.

Another time as a teen, I had a male coworker who drew a picture of what he thought I must look like naked, and told me my hips were filling out like my mother's (she worked in the same building at the time).

This is not acceptable, and yet it happens all the time. I'm actually rather shy, and I don't behave provocatively unless I'm making jokes in the presence of company with whom I feel safe and comfortable. I live in the southeastern United States - not Saudi Arabia.

Hell, I don't even engage in most debate threads on this site anymore. I'm not the only woman that's gotten threats because of daring to challenge a male.

The need for feminism and awareness of feminist issues is very real to me. I want to be socially equal. Just because i have the right to vote doesn't mean YAY we're all equal! I should be able to walk into a bar by myself and order a drink without being harassed, but that's not my reality. And this is not me being over sensitive about a man being friendly and saying hello - that would be welcome. Talking directly to my chest is not. Putting a hand on my thigh is not.

This doesn't make me a misandrist, I'm *also* an egalitarian. I'm asking to be treated as an equal, not greater than a man, but equal. The term feminist is appropriately this context because it is an area in which, as a woman, I'm *not* equal.

I can empathise with that. I used to think 'creep' was just petty shaming used by women to describe men they don't like. Until I met one. 'Dude convinced himself that if a woman even looked at him it meant she wanted sex, and from there he would rationalise all sorts of over-assertive bahavior towards them. He also legit believed that blonde haired, blue eyed whites were genetically superior to other races, and would get visibly pissed when he saw white women with non-whites. Hell he even told me, a blue eyed white, that I had 'tainted' genetics, as evidenced by my dark brown hair.. I'm going off topic here lol.

-But-

I've had drunk women at social gatherings physically grope me without my consent. One persisted after I told her to stop. They presumed that because I am male, I must enjoy female advances a priori, and that I'm just being shy when I express otherwise.

Last year I was walking down the street at night when a female stranger approached me from the apartment building that I was passing by. She asked that I walk her home. She immediately started clinging to my arm before I even replied. My anwser was no, BTW. When I tried to get away she would grab me full-on and wrestle me to a stop (I couldve violently pushed her off of me but I didn't want to fuck her drunk ass up). Eventually she started striking me in the face. I had to restrain her by the wrists then make a run for it to get away. She chased after me, yelling, "what kind of man runs from a girl!"

Point is fucked up people who feel entitled to others bodies come in both sexes. By nature of being physically weaker, I imagine women have it worse in these situations, though. If a woman becomes physical with me, I have options available to me because I'm stronger. If a man becomes physical with a woman, she's at the mercy of his will.


Thanks for sharing, it makes some of what you've posted before a bit more relatable.

"Point is fucked up people who feel entitled to others bodies come in both sexes."

Agreed. Creepers gonna fuckin' creep.



P.S. I tired to find a funny image to go along with that, but all I found was Minecraft bullshit. Ah well, c'est la vie.

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29-04-2016, 02:41 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
I can relate to what Nurse is saying, although I can't say I've ever been inappropriately touched in public, except for that one time someone decided to rub his crotch against me in a bus.

But yeah, it's scary to know you can't easily defend yourself in these situations and it's hard knowing that you are "weak".

Maybe feminism is still needed for those reasons. It doesn't need to go against men. Gender equality is not just about women, men have their fair share of gender-based discrimination, which should be addressed equally. That doesn't make feminism useless. Having groups that deal with the problems of poor people or black people or the elderly does not mean you have to go against or blame the rich or white or young people respectively.

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29-04-2016, 05:45 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(29-04-2016 12:00 AM)Nurse Wrote:  My (absolutely gorgeous) friend and I (I'm not an unattractive woman) went to Walmart last Thursday night. I was wearing shorts and a button up shirt with my sleeves rolled up my forearms - certainly not a provocative outfit, and I shouldn't have to apologize for having nice legs. We were *followed* around the store by an employee, then he groped us with his eyes while we were in the checkout line, and he even walked outside continuing to stare as we loaded the groceries in her car. We were both incredibly uncomfortable.

I get cat called frequently when I walk to work and I'm just wearing my scrubs.

I went to the bar one night and my asshole date left me alone for about an hour. I had leggings on under my dress - its not like I had my tits and vagina hanging out with a sign that said free gropes. I had my ass grabbed multiple times by multiple men. To say I was upset with him for abandoning me there and failing to understand the issue is a massive understatement - "just tell them to stop." Umm, yeh, cause works with someone who feels entitled to violate a woman's body is going to politely desist...not. I shouldn't have to make a huge scene so I won't be inappropriately touched when I don't have a male escort present.

My brother had to tuck me in his coat at Big Spring Jam during the Incubus concert when I was in high school. I stopped going to concerts because of all the problems I've encountered.

Another time as a teen, I had a male coworker who drew a picture of what he thought I must look like naked, and told me my hips were filling out like my mother's (she worked in the same building at the time).

This is not acceptable, and yet it happens all the time. I'm actually rather shy, and I don't behave provocatively unless I'm making jokes in the presence of company with whom I feel safe and comfortable. I live in the southeastern United States - not Saudi Arabia.

Hell, I don't even engage in most debate threads on this site anymore. I'm not the only woman that's gotten threats because of daring to challenge a male.

The need for feminism and awareness of feminist issues is very real to me. I want to be socially equal. Just because i have the right to vote doesn't mean YAY we're all equal! I should be able to walk into a bar by myself and order a drink without being harassed, but that's not my reality. And this is not me being over sensitive about a man being friendly and saying hello - that would be welcome. Talking directly to my chest is not. Putting a hand on my thigh is not.

This doesn't make me a misandrist, I'm *also* an egalitarian. I'm asking to be treated as an equal, not greater than a man, but equal. The term feminist is appropriately this context because it is an area in which, as a woman, I'm *not* equal.

Beautifully stated. Thank you!

And that tired old statement, so often made by the anti-feminists, "because women have it so much worse someplace else, you shouldn't complain about bad treatment here" is 100% bullshit!

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29-04-2016, 05:57 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(28-04-2016 01:30 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Feminists are the opposite of sexists.

If you think sexism is bullshit, congrats, you're a feminist (in addition to whatever other monikers or hats you'd like to wear, like egalitarian).

Agreed.

A lot of the flak feminists catch are when random feminists say weird or crazy things, and then these things are applied to the whole group. No one group has 100% control of who adopts their mantel and what those individuals say.

I've seen individual atheists say things I strongly disagree with, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go start believing in God, because of it.
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29-04-2016, 11:26 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
My solution to staring would be to ignore it if nothing else happens, and if it goes to far, stab'em hit 'em with a crowbar, hit'em. I don't see any other solution. Teach people not do it doesn't work, because people will do things the know are bad and not care. Making it illegal has to many problems, like how far does it go. I have stared at women, some times I was caught. Now I usually don't do that, but on the off chance I do and she sees me should I get in trouble? Should I get in trouble that all people naturally do, and that is stare at people they find attractive? Now I am not justifying cat calls(though I wish I was worth groping to some woman), most of the time it is rude. But the solution is ignore or stand up

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