Do you like feminism?
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30-04-2016, 11:20 AM (This post was last modified: 30-04-2016 11:38 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Do you like feminism?
Hi.

Straight, white male, here.

Maximum privilege.

Smartass

(30-04-2016 09:41 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The same applies for videos.

{video=youtube}
Insert the URL here for a specific YouTube video here.



{/video}




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30-04-2016, 11:29 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(30-04-2016 11:20 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Hi.

Straight, white male, here.

Maximum privilege.

Smartass

Where your parents rich? Cause if you aren't born at least high middle class, you aren't at maximum privilege.Tongue

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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30-04-2016, 11:44 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
How any thinking man can not be feminist is beyond my comprehension.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -Epicurus (341-270B.C.E.)
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30-04-2016, 11:50 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(30-04-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Were your parents rich? Cause if you aren't born at least high middle class, you aren't at maximum privilege.Tongue

Define "high middle class"

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30-04-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(30-04-2016 11:50 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(30-04-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Were your parents rich? Cause if you aren't born at least high middle class, you aren't at maximum privilege.Tongue

Define "high middle class"

Enough money to not really want for anything, but not so much that you're making 'richest X individuals' lists. You know, owning a McMansion where someone could be seen filming porn in. Tongue

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30-04-2016, 12:36 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(30-04-2016 11:57 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(30-04-2016 11:50 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Define "high middle class"

Enough money to not really want for anything, but not so much that you're making 'richest X individuals' lists. You know, owning a McMansion where someone could be seen filming porn in. Tongue

Guilty as charged.

Blush

Well, OK, not that rich ... we didn't want for anything (except parental love) but nor did we want anything much.

Both parents were feminists so it's in the genes... no choice.

Undecided

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30-04-2016, 12:39 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Discrimination is a social animal thing. Other apes do it, wolves do it, even animals like ants do it. Social animals will discriminate.
Argument of the day, right here.
(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  First, no. Because if it was a fuck up, then we wouldn't be here like this. Evolution doesn't work in good or bad, it works in what works and doesn't work.

Second, I can say sure, but every animal can be different from every other natural animal. Humans are animals, just like any other, we are not that special.
No, we're not that special in a cosmic sense, but we do have the ability to notice our own behavior and make incorrect assumptions based off of preconceived notions.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Dolphins also have self awareness, and so do other apes. On the intellect thing I can't say, but animals like dolphins and other apes being able to question themselves would not be surprising.
I don't doubt the intelligence of dolphins, that's for sure. I'm not an animal scientist, so I have no comment on this.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  There will never be a perfect world, because someone out there will think ones perfect world sucks.
Yeah, bigots.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well humans are a sexually dimorphic species, so we have no choice. In fact not noticing gender is dangerous. For example, if I need something heavy lifted and there is a man walking by and I ask him to help, vs a female. Now in the real world the male would be picked because the chances of a man being stronger than a woman is much, much higher. In one where gender is not seen and I pick the female, chances are that she won't be able to carry it for long and her and I will get hurt, maybe even die. We see gender differences for a reason, and that is because men and women are different.
Funny how it all comes down to lifting heavy objects.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  This is where I question the definition of sexism. And your brother might just be teasing you, because my brother and I do the same thing. My sister and I do the same thing. Siblings tend to pick on each other. So when he teases you tease him back. Also I never heard eat like a man before?
I'm not basing everything I say off of what my brother says. I have so many interactions in any given amount of time, I can't explain to you every single example, I just used my brother as an example, but yes I can say that I have experienced sexism in my day to day life, it's not uncommon.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  And I get mocked for what I do, but I just shrug it off and continue my day.
I don't even know what we're debating about at this point.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Now these has been seen and observed. There is a reason women with high status jobs or well paying jobs struggle to find a mate. It isn't because they are ugly, or that they are an asshole, but the fact that if you can provide and protect yourself as a woman, whats the point of dating a man of equal or lower status than you? It is also the reason you see ugly rich men with hot women, but you pretty much never see ugly rich women with hot men. And these patterns are incredible common and universal. America is not the only place like this. So I am just not saying that to say it, but women's mate choices are for protection and comfort.
That's a really stupid reason to marry someone, that's a very shallow, superficial reason to marry someone. Holy fucking shit. I will marry someone who I fall in love with, who I will be together with through whatever hard times come my way. I actually find your idea of attraction to be very disturbing.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what-per...n-gay.aspx

Now some do say that it is 20%

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news...67/?no-ist

But even then that is still a minority at best, and still includes both gays and lesbians.
In a society without sexism, who's to say. These charts are irrelevant.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Yes, because when feelings come first, go to mansplanning Tongue
HAHAHAHAHAHA
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30-04-2016, 12:41 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(30-04-2016 10:58 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(30-04-2016 08:00 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I mean, if you look at cultures like Japan, they already have a population of guys who seem to be more comfortable with dressing androgynous, as well as having a culture of guys who are generally much thinner.

This is actually the exact opposite of what Japanese culture is actually like.

Starting with the obvious, Japanese people are thinner because there are literal laws in place to curb obesity in Japan. Japanese culture is hugely against being overweight, and all adults over the age of 45 must have their waistlines checked annually. You won't, contrary to popular myth, be fined or jailed for being overweight, but you do have to submit to medical examination and receive dietary consultation.

Beyond that, Japanese culture is highly entrenched in gender norms. They just aren't American gender norms. I'd go more in-depth into this, but it would require me to look up sources that I honestly haven't read in years and I'm short for time at the moment. Essentially, though, Japanese men are very much told to be manly, and women to be womanly; "bishie" characters in anime are the exception, not the rule.

Out of time for the moment. I'll come back with more detail later.
Oh my god, I wish america did that for it's citizens. Fat people are disgusting.
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30-04-2016, 05:48 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(30-04-2016 12:39 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Argument of the day, right here.

Do you think animals do not discriminate?

(30-04-2016 12:39 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  No, we're not that special in a cosmic sense, but we do have the ability to notice our own behavior and make incorrect assumptions based off of preconceived notions.

So can many other animals. Many animals do regret doing things they though were right at first.

(30-04-2016 12:39 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Yeah, bigots.

This is if you assume everyone who does not want to live in your world is a bigot. Also an society were men and women are the same won't work. Your world is not the world everyone wants to live in, sorry calling everyone a bigot because they don't agree with what you call perfect won't make it so.

(30-04-2016 12:39 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Funny how it all comes down to lifting heavy objects.

A. It was supposed to be an example. And to add this would ruin an androgynous society

B. And why shouldn't it? You know how dangerous it is to have some lift something when they can barely lift it? Some one could get killed.

(30-04-2016 12:39 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  but yes I can say that I have experienced sexism in my day to day life, it's not uncommon.

Actual sexism, or micro aggression sexism? Because the ladder is bullshit.


(30-04-2016 12:39 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I don't even know what we're debating about at this point.

(30-04-2016 12:39 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  That's a really stupid reason to marry someone, that's a very shallow, superficial reason to marry someone. Holy fucking shit. I will marry someone who I fall in love with, who I will be together with through whatever hard times come my way. I actually find your idea of attraction to be very disturbing.

Well A, no not my idea. And B. nature is disturbing, life is disturbing. Just because it doesn't sound good doesn't mean that it should there for be false. Men like a girl because she is hot, women like men because they can provide. Most say that is not there first thought, but thought is different from instinct. It is like catching a punch, you don't think let me catch this punch you just do it. Sorry, just because you don't like it, doesn't make it false.

(30-04-2016 12:39 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  In a society without sexism, who's to say. These charts are irrelevant.

A. It would be homophobia

And B. of course the are relevant. They can see how many people are gay, even if they are in the closet(it is not like people know who is gay are not after the study)

C. Refute the study if it bothers you. Again, homosexuals are the minority.

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01-05-2016, 03:30 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(30-04-2016 08:21 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Men might not always have to care about looks, but men have to be successful. Why? Because women like it. Men like big tits and ass, women like a man who can buy the shit. It works. Now you can argue that is social, but the fact men like fertility and women like men who provide isn't.

(30-04-2016 08:21 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  There is a reason women like men who are strong and rich, and that is because those imply protection and comfort. Men like women who look good, because that implies that his offspring will be healthy. Like it or not, this works for the species and there for won't go away naturally.

These generalizations don't make a lot of sense. I only personally know a couple of women who are attracted to rich, strong men. The rest of them find cute, affectionate or boyish men more attractive. You are completely ignoring the dynamics of human relationships (which really is not very surprising, since you only know them through studies and articles you read on the internet). Women do not only need protection and comfort. Men do not only need healthy offspring. Most men I know would prefer an affectionate girl that is average looking rather than a really hot girl who does not provide any affection or companionship.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Now these has been seen and observed. There is a reason women with high status jobs or well paying jobs struggle to find a mate. It isn't because they are ugly, or that they are an asshole, but the fact that if you can provide and protect yourself as a woman, whats the point of dating a man of equal or lower status than you? It is also the reason you see ugly rich men with hot women, but you pretty much never see ugly rich women with hot men.

Citation needed.
I haven't seen many successful single women in my life. Only in movies. Ugly rich men with hot women is, again, a celebrity thing. Those women most probably don't even have sex with those men, they're just there to make the men look better. Honestly, how many of those couples have you seen in real life?

You don't see many rich ugly women with hot men because you don't generally see many rich women in general (only on TV, but does that count?). You often see attractive men dating or marrying women who are much less attractive than them. How does your theory explain that?

Celebrities care about their image and their relationships are not always real. Try looking at real life if you want to make a decent argument.

I have also been told by men or have seen men online secretly admitting that they don't want to show off their girlfriends, not because they're not attracted to them, but because they think their friends or family may judge them. Men feel pressured to have a "hot girlfriend". When they tell their friends they're dating a girl, the first question they ask is "is she hot?" or questions about her boobs or butt.

So, don't be surprised if you see men dating attractive women they don't really want to be with, or women dating rich, successful men they're not actually in love with, for the exact same reasons.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  So I am just not saying that to say it, but women's mate choices are for protection and comfort.

Then why do many women start relationships with poor, disabled, unfit or otherwise incapable-of-offering-protection men? Your posts are full of silly generalizations and myths. As I said, you are completely ignoring the dynamics of human relationships.

(30-04-2016 05:48 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Just because it doesn't sound good doesn't mean that it should there for be false.

And just because it sounds right to you and fits with your worldview, it doesn't mean it's necessarily 100% true.

(30-04-2016 05:48 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Men like a girl because she is hot, women like men because they can provide. Most say that is not there first thought, but thought is different from instinct.

We do not act and behave based on our instincts alone. Not everyone loves sugar and fat. Not everyone is scared of dangerous things. Not everyone wants to have sex and kids.

(30-04-2016 08:21 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well think about it, how many people on the planet are homosexual? Not many, they make up less than 10% of our population, and that is with both gays and lesbians. We do expect people to be straight, but what is important is that when someone comes out as gay, they will be accepted for it.

(30-04-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what-per...n-gay.aspx

Now some do say that it is 20%

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news...67/?no-ist

But even then that is still a minority at best, and still includes both gays and lesbians.

Did you even read those two articles?

The first says
Quote: what percentage of the population is homosexual?

It may be that no one will ever know for sure. To some people, homosexuality is a matter of perception and definition. Furthermore, many people have trouble admitting their homosexuality to themselves, much less to a researcher.

And the second says
Quote:This number has always been hard to pin down: sexuality is fluid, and plenty of people still feel pressured to hide their sexual orientation.

10% is a very rough estimate that may be very, very far from the truth. The second study shows a 20%, which is actually a huge number.

But even if those numbers were true, both articles claim that you can't possibly know the right number with certainty. My brother is gay and he claims that every single man he's met and talked to has had a homosexual experience. And he's met a lot of people.

So, how can you be sure that homosexual people are a minority? The number of people who don't realize they are gay and would realize it in a more free-spoken and liberal society might be huge.

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