Do you like feminism?
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01-05-2016, 04:41 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
Why do people alwayse bring anecdotes into this? (I know I did, but it was only in response to one, and it was explicitly to make the point that they don't mean anything.) I don't care if most women you know say they prefer x and most men you know say they prefer y. Even if anecdotes meant shit, self-reporting is extremely unreliable; that is, people will profess an opinion for reasons other than because they actually hold that opinion. So coming into these threads and saying "well that can't be true because people tell me they're not like that" is just about the most irrelevant thing you can do.

This isn't directed at any one person, by the way.
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01-05-2016, 04:49 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 04:41 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Why do people alwayse bring anecdotes into this? (I know I did, but it was only in response to one, and it was explicitly to make the point that they don't mean anything.) I don't care if most women you know say they prefer x and most men you know say they prefer y. Even if anecdotes meant shit, self-reporting is extremely unreliable; that is, people will profess an opinion for reasons other than because they actually hold that opinion. So coming into these threads and saying "well that can't be true because people tell me they're not like that" is just about the most irrelevant thing you can do.

This isn't directed at any one person, by the way.

If you need an image to make a point, just ask. Tongue

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01-05-2016, 07:13 AM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2016 07:33 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Do you like feminism?
Women have it bad in other countries. Especially the middle East. But in America? Women have it good here.

Where is my equality? Why can't I do what women get to do? Why do I have to wear slacks, a button up shirt and closed toe shoes to get into a night club? Plus pay a $20 cover charge? And my wife can wear flip flops, shorts and a tank top to the same club nor pay a cover charge? Plus drinks are free for women on Thursday nights.

One of my biggest complaints about feminism/equality comes from when I worked for a police department in Washington state. We had a group of feminazis that demanded everything equal as the men. If the men were allowed to shave their heads, the women demanded that they should be allowed to shave their heads. But when the men proposed that we should be able to have long hair like a woman they said we were being sexist. They also negotiated with the bosses to always be in a car with a partner because they didn't feel safe working alone, and demanded a male officer respond with them to all traffic stops after dark. Plus they missed work 2.5 times as much as their male counterparts and often asked to leave work because their kids were sick or they had babysitter issues. Equality? They needed a man for everything. Feminism is stupid. Just accept you can't do the things a man can do physically. There's no shame admitting it. Wonder why your pay is lower or you didn't get that promotion to manager? Maybe it's because you aways have "babysitter problems" or take 50-60% more sick days than men. Men and women are not equal, have never been equal, nor will they ever be equal.

Rant over.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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01-05-2016, 09:07 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
I brought an anecdote into it because the thread title is "do you like feminism?"

Fuck being complacent and ok with being sexually harassed in public. Just because I'm not getting stoned for wearing shorts in public does not make it ok.




As far as the sick child thing, my former employer was very progressive. Their solution to parents calling out for sick kids was providing sources for emergency babysitting care any day of the week, any shift. They identified a problem and provided a solution.


Male or female, LEOs riding with partners is safer...

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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01-05-2016, 09:20 AM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2016 10:07 AM by BnW.)
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 07:13 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Equality? They needed a man for everything. Feminism is stupid. Just accept you can't do the things a man can do physically. There's no shame admitting it. Wonder why your pay is lower or you didn't get that promotion to manager? Maybe it's because you aways have "babysitter problems" or take 50-60% more sick days than men. Men and women are not equal, have never been equal, nor will they ever be equal.

So, you set the parameters of the debate, stack the deck, and call yourself the winner? A tried and true practice of the perpetual douchebag class.

Women constantly get the short end of the stick. Tell me, how often do you stay home with the kids when they are sick (I do it all the time)? How many couples do you know where they got divorce and the father had the kids full time and had to deal with all the issues and chase mom for child support? It does happen but it absolutely is not the norm.

We stack the deck against women constantly and then blame them for not being able to jump all the obstacles. And then they have to read some asshole complain about having to pay a cover charge.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
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01-05-2016, 10:58 AM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 09:20 AM)BnW Wrote:  How many couples do you know where they got divorce and the father had the kids full time and had to deal with all the issues and chase mom for child support? It does happen but it absolutely is not the norm.

Curiously, one of the - if not the - top concerns of MRA's is men not getting access to their children. It's interesting to look at the different evaluations of the same occurence. I don't know what you call yourself, but you seem to frame the courts bias for female child custody as, "Why the fuck do the women have to deal with the children all the time!" while MRAs are framing it as, "Why the fuck can't men see their children!"

By the way, relevant is the fact that women initate 69% of divorces in america.

Also the few men who do get custody recieve support for that child 25% less of the time than mothers who get custody. They also are awarded less due by the courts, AND see less than what they're due. Source.

So women are iniating the end of the vast majority of terminated marriages, and are getting child custody the vast majority of the time, and then recieving support more, and more of it.. This hardly paints the narrative that deadbeat dads are leaving their families, but much more readily says moms are kicking dads out and keeping the kids with them, then enjoying benefits he wouldn't have should he have even got the kids.

By the way, how many women do you know who have paid alimony? 2010 US censes says only 3% of alimony payers were women. Consider

Quote:Women constantly get the short end of the stick.
Quote:We stack the deck against women constantly and then blame them for not being able to jump all the obstacles. And then they have to read some asshole complain about having to pay a cover charge.

Dunno', man. Not seeing it.
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01-05-2016, 12:22 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
My anecdotes were aimed at all those "you never see a woman/man like that". I'll reply with studies when I'm given studies.

(01-05-2016 07:13 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Men and women are not equal, have never been equal, nor will they ever be equal.

That would make sense if we were 10 years old. "Women want to be equal with men? Carry that heavy couch on your own then bitch."

Feminism never tried to make women physically stronger or similar to men in any way. If women thought they can do anything a man can do, there would be no reason for feminism to exist. "Equal" does not mean being the same, it means having the same rights.

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01-05-2016, 12:59 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
(01-05-2016 07:13 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Women have it bad in other countries. Especially the middle East. But in America? Women have it good here.

Where is my equality? Why can't I do what women get to do? Why do I have to wear slacks, a button up shirt and closed toe shoes to get into a night club? Plus pay a $20 cover charge? And my wife can wear flip flops, shorts and a tank top to the same club nor pay a cover charge? Plus drinks are free for women on Thursday nights.

One of my biggest complaints about feminism/equality comes from when I worked for a police department in Washington state. We had a group of feminazis that demanded everything equal as the men. If the men were allowed to shave their heads, the women demanded that they should be allowed to shave their heads. But when the men proposed that we should be able to have long hair like a woman they said we were being sexist. They also negotiated with the bosses to always be in a car with a partner because they didn't feel safe working alone, and demanded a male officer respond with them to all traffic stops after dark. Plus they missed work 2.5 times as much as their male counterparts and often asked to leave work because their kids were sick or they had babysitter issues. Equality? They needed a man for everything. Feminism is stupid. Just accept you can't do the things a man can do physically. There's no shame admitting it. Wonder why your pay is lower or you didn't get that promotion to manager? Maybe it's because you aways have "babysitter problems" or take 50-60% more sick days than men. Men and women are not equal, have never been equal, nor will they ever be equal.

Rant over.

"Plus they missed work 2.5 times as much as their male counterparts and often asked to leave work because their kids were sick or they had babysitter issues. Equality? They needed a man for everything."

What they needed was not a man for everything, they needed for the fathers of those children to assume equal responsibility for child care.

I agree that courts are biased towards mothers rather than fathers, and no, I don't think that bias is fair. Maybe if more fathers regularly start missing work days because their kids are sick or there's a teacher conference half day, courts will rethink this issue. Hopefully also that won't lead to the non parents in the worksite bitching that parents' rights are stupid and that employees who are parents need a childless worker "for everything."

Of note: as a working mom for the last 18 years, I have never missed a deadline or asked for extra assistance on a job assignment because of child care issues. Partly because of the assholish attitudes like the ones you've expressed, and partly because it's my work, I want to get it done right.
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01-05-2016, 02:38 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
Whether or not it's fair or right women are expected to pick up the majority of unpaid labor in our country. Women are expected to take the brunt of child care duties. Women are expected to do most of the cooking and cleaning. It's not right and it's not fair, but that's how it is. When people claim "women don't get raises because they're always getting called away from the office for child care issues" the response is "why are men less likely to be called out for child care?" And the answer is that our society has a of the old gender role ideas from women didn't work.

Is it unfair that courts favor mothers in custody cases? Yup, absolutely. We can try and fix that. And I don't think it's right to say "women have it so hard in the middle east, so shut up about having to deal with minor inconveniences!" Injustice is injustice. Sexism is wrong. It can be big or small but it is still wrong.
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01-05-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Do you like feminism?
Yes, and I don't have a problem with it. However, that doesn't mean I agree with every feminist, or would want to associate with the feminists who I disagree with.

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