Poll: Did you support his run for president or not, and, what would you like to see happen with his presidency now?
I supported him and I hope he serves TWO full terms!
I supported him and I see no reason he shouldn't serve out this one term.
I supported him but I've seen and heard enough to want him impeached ASAP.
I did not support him but I hope he serves TWO full terms!
I did not support him but I see no reason he shouldn't serve out this one term.
I did not support him and I've seen and heard enough to want him impeached ASAP.
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Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
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26-07-2017, 11:02 PM
RE: Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
(26-07-2017 02:32 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(26-07-2017 01:43 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  Is "impeached with a bullet" going too far?

Pathetic. Obama did 8 years and was hated by conservatives, most of which are gun owners.

Sure, conservatives never wished for his death.

Oh, wait --

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[Image: DeathtoDictator.jpg]

Where was your criticism then? That's right, you didn't criticize these acts. Hell, so far as I can tell, you might have been one of those jackasses who dragged an AR-15 to a rally. And more to the point, you didn't criticize your boy Trump when he suggested "Second Amendment people" could do something about a Clinton Presidency.

Your hypocrisy is obvious to everyone else but you yourself. You are the Blind-Spot poster child.

Yeah, you need to shut up with your whining here. You clearly have no problem with violent rhetoric ... until it's addressed to your favorite pimp. Fucking hypocrite.
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26-07-2017, 11:57 PM
RE: Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
LDH are you actually a white supremacist? Just asking directly, because I could well believe it.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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27-07-2017, 12:06 AM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2017 01:22 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
Weeeeeeeeeell as a person who has been rather strident my entire adult life that the initiation of force and calls for violence are almost always wrong I'm gonna do two things. First I'm gonna weigh in and say...

Yes, using murder as an impeachment tool is probably a bad idea that kiiiiiiinda cedes any moral high ground we might have, though I recognise that was obviously a joke haha.

Then I'm gonna do this:

Death to Trump Protesters

Death To Obama Protesters

If you sit down and scroll through that shit you see that Obama faced way more threats and calls to violence then Trump has. That is just obvious if you try to deny it you're either stupid or lying. Here is the problem though.

Death to Bush Protesters

Death to Bill Clinton Protesters

The difference is fuckin' staggering.

It might not be fun to say, and I won't garner any love here for saying it, but this is a wolf we on the left raised and feed for 8 long years (not entirely alone, there were some people on the right that hated Bush too obviously), then it turned around sunk its teeth in our own ass, and now we got the leash again and we are back to doing the same damn thing.
I ain't trying to assign blame, but to act like our hands are clean in this is just not factually true. It doesn't mean that the right has the moral high ground on the issue because they don't, they have feed that wolf just as happily.


This is exactly what I've been talking about in other threads. Political discourse in America has been so radicalised, become so toxic, that people can't talk to each other outside talking points and fuckin' memes. There was a time two people on opposite sides of every single political issue could sit down and have a conversation and not result in both screaming "NAZI!" and "HITLER!".

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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27-07-2017, 12:17 AM
RE: Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
(27-07-2017 12:06 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Political discourse in America has been so radicalised, become so toxic, that people can't talk to each other outside talking points and fuckin' memes. There was a time two people on opposite sides of every single political issue could sit down and have a conversation and not result in both screaming "NAZI!" and "HITLER!".

Is that not at least partially the fault of the politicians themselves though? It's not like the electorate suddenly decided they'd like a non-functioning government please. I see it as very much self-serving politicians manufacturing a divide and taking extreme positions for their own gain.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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27-07-2017, 01:17 AM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2017 01:26 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
(27-07-2017 12:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(27-07-2017 12:06 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Political discourse in America has been so radicalised, become so toxic, that people can't talk to each other outside talking points and fuckin' memes. There was a time two people on opposite sides of every single political issue could sit down and have a conversation and not result in both screaming "NAZI!" and "HITLER!".

Is that not at least partially the fault of the politicians themselves though? It's not like the electorate suddenly decided they'd like a non-functioning government please. I see it as very much self-serving politicians manufacturing a divide and taking extreme positions for their own gain.
Partially? Abso-fucking-lutly, without a shadow of a doubt, you see politicians pandering to the "memeification" of political discourse. No doubt about that at all. There are soooooooo many things that have contributed to it, and because I like the sound of my own ....typing (??) ...ahem.... I'll give a bit of my opinion on the biggest problem.

1.) The 9/11 attacks, the government response, and the world's reaction to that response (including a lot of Americans) dramatically shifted the tone of political discourse not just in America but around the world. And that makes sense to me it really does. 9/11 was one of the most shocking gut punches to the western psyche in a generation or more, and that's going to affect our way of talking. We got super charged from that, we got louder, we got angrier, and that makes sense. This was not some gradual change in the countries direction, this was literally an over night change in the world view and daily life of a whole nation, a whole planet near enough. That shit CHANGES you, it just does.

2.)A big one is the media. I ain't yelling about "fake news" so don't anyone lose their minds haha. They have played a massive roll in giving a nation wide platform to the loudest most dishonest bigoted assholes on both sides, because that kinda shit brings in views and money. What I mean is that we saw a large shift at around the same time towards the "24-hour news network" and that is HUGELY problematic. For starters, it has incentivized the absolute worst kind of behaviour and reporting, it's not about getting a well sourced properly researched bit of journalism out there because that takes time and money. A lot more money and time than just delivering a narrative.

Back in '13 I think it was the Daily Show did a bit on how major news outlets were gutting their investigative journalism departments. (Can't find the video Sadcryface ) Who remembers this bit of brillance?



Shit has NOT gotten better since then, not in the least, it has gotten much much worse because no one is holding the media accountable for the shit they put out, or for the quality of their investigations.

I can't recommend enough the book by Bill Kovach and Tom Rosenstiel called Warp Speed: America in the Age of Mixed Media as they talk a good deal about this exact thing.
"the press has moved toward sensationalism, entertainment, and opinion" and away from traditional values of verification, proportion, relevance, depth, and quality of interpretation. They fear these values will be replaced by a "journalism of assertion" which de-emphasizes whether a claim is valid and encourages putting a claim into the arena of public discussion as quickly as possible."
We can absolutly see this "journalism of assertion" in full effect today all over the place.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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27-07-2017, 01:24 AM
RE: Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
(27-07-2017 12:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(27-07-2017 12:06 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Political discourse in America has been so radicalised, become so toxic, that people can't talk to each other outside talking points and fuckin' memes. There was a time two people on opposite sides of every single political issue could sit down and have a conversation and not result in both screaming "NAZI!" and "HITLER!".

Is that not at least partially the fault of the politicians themselves though? It's not like the electorate suddenly decided they'd like a non-functioning government please. I see it as very much self-serving politicians manufacturing a divide and taking extreme positions for their own gain.

Yesterday I had a very civil political discussion with my brother-in-law, who is a Trump supporter. I am rabidly anti-Trump, but that doesn't mean I have forgotten how to be polite in ordinary situations.

I am not against gridlock, since I think our government should truly represent its people. What I am very much against is people demonizing their opponents, like Donald Trump does so often. I find that behavior repellant, misguided, and destructive.
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27-07-2017, 01:31 AM
RE: Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
(27-07-2017 01:24 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  What I am very much against is people demonizing their opponents, like Donald Trump does so often. I find that behavior repellant, misguided, and destructive.

Oh, stop being such a pansy Tongue

Demonising people is so easy though. And if they fight back you can scream that they are demonising *you*. It's not a nice tactic, but politicians in general don't seem to be nice people. Once it's about personal power for them... fuck yeah, they're gonna demonise the fuck out of anyone who dares to criticise them.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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27-07-2017, 02:05 AM
RE: Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
(27-07-2017 01:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  Demonising people is so easy though. And if they fight back you can scream that they are demonising *you*. It's not a nice tactic, but politicians in general don't seem to be nice people. Once it's about personal power for them... fuck yeah, they're gonna demonise the fuck out of anyone who dares to criticise them.

I disagree that this behavior is generally true of politicians, only of some.
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27-07-2017, 03:29 AM
RE: Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
(27-07-2017 01:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(27-07-2017 01:24 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  What I am very much against is people demonizing their opponents, like Donald Trump does so often. I find that behavior repellant, misguided, and destructive.

Oh, stop being such a pansy Tongue

Demonising people is so easy though. And if they fight back you can scream that they are demonising *you*. It's not a nice tactic, but politicians in general don't seem to be nice people. Once it's about personal power for them... fuck yeah, they're gonna demonise the fuck out of anyone who dares to criticise them.

It's not just the politicians that do that though, it's their supporters ( on both sides) it's the base and it's the media pushing people with the most incendiary language right to the front cause gotta get that add revenue dolla dolla bills. It's an ouroboros of assholes if you will.

There is a reason that, other than enjoying myself by making the homeless lunatic-that-shall-not-be-named-lest-I-summon-him asshole look stoopid, I've largely avoided the politics sub-section of this forum. The discourse is just too toxic these days and let's be honest...you guys have watched me debate people before ...I can be kinda abrasive so if I'm saying that... lol

Like here I'll throw a chunk of my flesh to the alligators to make a point. I have said in the past that I think that there is no right to initiate force on another human being and that people have a basic human right to self-preservation. Now if I believe, and I do, that people have a basic human right to self-defense I have to recognise that in the modern era the single most reliable and consistent way across race, gender, and physicality to do so is through a responsible possession and usage of firearms. (This is coming from a Canadian that doesn't own any, and whose livelihood comes from teaching swordsmanship to people lol)
The reaction I have gotten from this, what I view to be reasonable, opinion is that I am a "racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted and fascistic Trump supporter". When I proceed to point out to these people that I am a) Canadian and that the fuuuuuurthest right leaning party in Canada supports policies that would make Bernie Sanders have his first wet dream in a decade and that b) I'm pro-choice, pro gay marriage, pro gay adoption, one of the most strident supporters of transsexual rights I personally know and have been since before it became a mainstream topic. Their head generally goes all Scanners by that point and I don't get to launch into a rant about how fucking stupid it is to pretend to know what is in a persons mind based on a single goddamn data point!

This has happened to me from people on the right too, literally just as much. This is why, while I'll take LDH to task when I think he's wrong or being an ass, I try not to attribute motive to him, or anyone else, because I just don't know. No one knows what is in my head and heart, and I don't know what is in theirs. The people who voted for Trump could have voted for him for a fuck tonne of reasons.
They could have voted for him cause they are white supremacists and they want all the Mexicans out of the country....or they could have voted for him because they viewed illegal immigration as a crime and manifestly unfair to the people who go through the entire excruciatingly burdensome process of legal immigration.
They could have voted for Trump because they hate gay people, or they could have voted for him because the platform of the Democratic party involves taking tax money from people of conservative social and religious beliefs and using it to fund things they utterly believe are immoral.
They could have voted for Trump because they viewed him as hostile to Muslims and they hate them or they could have voted for him because they view a culture/religion that values human rights and personal liberty so poorly that they throw gay people off buildings, put women in bags and has the views on raping women that it does, and still enslave people miiiiiiiiight not be congruent with western ideals of equality between the sexes, individual rights, personal liberty and not beating your daughter to death for owning a goddamn skirt.
Or maybe some of them just think red is a prettier colour than blue on maps, or maybe they watched Return of the King too often on DVD and think elephants are just the absolute fucking worst now, or who the fuck knows lol

The point is it could have been any of these things, all of these things, or it could have been just one of these things and they completely disagreed with a lot of Trump's platform. Look at the primaries, for example, he was NOT liked by conservatives at all. We know as a fact Trump didn't win just through "racism" because a goddamn lot of white middle-class people that voted for Trump voted for Obama as well. They didn't make that switch 'cause they got possessed by Confederate era ghosts they did it because they voted for Obama and they feel that they got screwed, marginalised, and demonised by the left as a result.

Politics is complicated and anyone pretending all the people that voted Trump are racists are being dishonest or downright childish. Shit ain't that cut and dry, it ain't that black and whi-
[Image: giphy.gif]
te.
OH GODDAMNIT!
Tongue

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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27-07-2017, 03:41 AM
RE: Do you mind being polled on your support for Trump?
I selected the option (as an Aussie) of "I did not support him but I see no reason he shouldn't serve out this one term". I really can't see an impeachment getting off the ground any time in the next 3½ years, and hopefully the Democrats will gain power in the mid-terms—which will effectively cripple Trump. I also think that the longer he staggers from one political disaster to the next, the more rope he's giving himself in order for a hanging.

I'd "supported" Clinton in 2016, and I couldn't believe it that she still effectively lost even after gaining 3 million more primary votes than Trump—purely because of the idiotic and outmoded Electoral College, which has to be the most manipulated and skewed voting system in any first-world Western country. It takes the true will of the people totally out of their hands at the ballot box.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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