Do you sin less as an athiest?
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18-01-2014, 08:52 AM
RE: Do you sin less as an athiest?
When I was in elementary school I remember my parents and teachers telling me the word athiest meant, one who us against god. I guess that's like being againt the pink poke a dot hippo that lives on mars. If I ever see that fat fucker I'm going to kill him. Lol
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18-01-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: Do you sin less as an athiest?
I actually think it was one of the reasons why christianity didn't stick with me.
I was raised in a secular home, so when I was older and exploring different ideas, one thing I kept coming across was the old 'love your neighbor as yourself', 'above all love is the most important' blah, blah, blah. But every person I met that was proclaiming to be a christian and always spouting off jesus crap was FAR from showing love. They were usually the ones saying gays are going to hell, disowning their kids, kicking them out of the house, shoving their views on others.

I just couldn't wrap my head around it. They were saying one thing and doing another. And it wasn't just one family--it was every one I met over years. Here I am, an outsider, thinking to myself…..wait, you don't kick your teen daughter out of the house when she comes home pregnant-now is when she needs you the most. You don't flip out on your grand daughter because she's gay and tell her never to come back. WTF? where is this 'above all love' --isn't that what you say is the heart of all you believe?? That's when I realized its all just a bunch of BS they tell themselves to be mean to others.

do unto others, as you have them do unto you….seems to fit most everything and how I try to go thru life. I wasn't raised to be a thief-not gonna start now.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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18-01-2014, 10:14 AM
RE: Do you sin less as an athiest?
(18-01-2014 03:45 AM)Logisch Wrote:  Christian standard? Hell no. I work on sunday all the time, I eat pork and seafood, I don't follow the part of the 10 commandments where I'm supposed to suck yahweh's titties because he's insecure and worst of all I sometimes wear mixed fabrics. I'm super fucked.

Was you ex-Jewish ?
I used to be an orthodox jew for 7 years and know about the mixed fabrics !
Funny how "Christian standards" pick and choose from the bible.

I used to be far more judgmental as a theist thinking other non believers are immoral and this probably reflects on ones overall moral behaviours becoming more moral to the "in group" and less moral to the "out group"

In many cases once I accepted I was an open, in many cases "positive" strong atheist this did not effect my overall morality. I never pillaged and raped whilst religious and haven't really had the time to go murder,pillage and rape the local villages now due to my busy schedule helping people.
On the contrary - read Society without God: What the Least Religious Nations Can Tell Us About Contentment - Phil Zuckerman
The most secular societies tend to be the most moral and have the best standards of living and well being on virtually every measure and vice versa.
Ok - this is a correlation and doesn't prove causation but at least shows one can have a very secular society which doesn't somehow spontaneously combust into murder, raping and pillaging.

Also don't confuse atheism with rationality. A common theistic response is to look at polpot, Stalin of N.Korea as examples of horrific immoral societies that are atheistic. The political systems running these societies is highly irrational and very religious in structure & only emphasize the need to teach critical & rational reasoning. Rationality + critical reasoning lead to atheism as a conclusion but atheists can be irrational and succumb to all sorts of woo woo and religious like political institutions.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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18-01-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: Do you sin less as an athiest?
(18-01-2014 09:45 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  I actually think it was one of the reasons why christianity didn't stick with me.
I was raised in a secular home, so when I was older and exploring different ideas, one thing I kept coming across was the old 'love your neighbor as yourself', 'above all love is the most important' blah, blah, blah. But every person I met that was proclaiming to be a christian and always spouting off jesus crap was FAR from showing love. They were usually the ones saying gays are going to hell, disowning their kids, kicking them out of the house, shoving their views on others.

I just couldn't wrap my head around it. They were saying one thing and doing another. And it wasn't just one family--it was every one I met over years. Here I am, an outsider, thinking to myself…..wait, you don't kick your teen daughter out of the house when she comes home pregnant-now is when she needs you the most. You don't flip out on your grand daughter because she's gay and tell her never to come back. WTF? where is this 'above all love' --isn't that what you say is the heart of all you believe?? That's when I realized its all just a bunch of BS they tell themselves to be mean to others.

do unto others, as you have them do unto you….seems to fit most everything and how I try to go thru life. I wasn't raised to be a thief-not gonna start now.

You are spot on. When I was a "man of faith" I was much less tolerant and much more judgmental. Now that I think of it from humanistic standpoint I'm ashamed of how I acted as a christian and I'm very proud of the way I have acted as an athiest. If Jesus were more than a mushroom trip I'm sure he would be proud.
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18-01-2014, 10:21 AM
RE: Do you sin less as an athiest?
(18-01-2014 09:45 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  I actually think it was one of the reasons why christianity didn't stick with me.
I was raised in a secular home, so when I was older and exploring different ideas, one thing I kept coming across was the old 'love your neighbor as yourself', 'above all love is the most important' blah, blah, blah. But every person I met that was proclaiming to be a christian and always spouting off jesus crap was FAR from showing love. They were usually the ones saying gays are going to hell, disowning their kids, kicking them out of the house, shoving their views on others.

I just couldn't wrap my head around it. They were saying one thing and doing another. And it wasn't just one family--it was every one I met over years. Here I am, an outsider, thinking to myself…..wait, you don't kick your teen daughter out of the house when she comes home pregnant-now is when she needs you the most. You don't flip out on your grand daughter because she's gay and tell her never to come back. WTF? where is this 'above all love' --isn't that what you say is the heart of all you believe?? That's when I realized its all just a bunch of BS they tell themselves to be mean to others.

do unto others, as you have them do unto you….seems to fit most everything and how I try to go thru life. I wasn't raised to be a thief-not gonna start now.

You are spot on. When I was a "man of faith" I was much less tolerant and much more judgmental. Now that I think of it from humanistic standpoint I'm ashamed of how I acted as a christian and I'm very proud of the way I have acted as an athiest. If Jesus were more than a mushroom trip I'm sure he would be proud.
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18-01-2014, 10:24 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2014 10:28 AM by Baruch.)
RE: Do you sin less as an athiest?
(18-01-2014 08:42 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 08:25 AM)bslats Wrote:  I'm here for the support and to have a place I can speak freely among comrades. I certainly don't want to make enemies or cause a ruckus on my first thread. Full circle you bring up a good point. Before my deconversion I think most of my decisions were weighted by guilt more than the fear of being watched.

The god-fearing people that have posed this question to me find it incomprehensible that I don't rape and pillage without the fear of celestial retribution. I think in some respects this frightens them to their core because here they have proof (in my actions and life) that gods are unnecessary to be just or moral.

Thus my sig, a clear conscience etc.

I can relate to the above whilst I was a theist - somehow self restraint comes from the sky daddy watching you.
There is some psychological studies which back this up such as when eyes are stuck onto a donation box there was more donated than a picture of flowers (all sorts of similar replicated studies)
eg http://essay.utwente.nl/62328/
http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/daniel.nettle...ateson.pdf
Effects of eye images on everyday cooperative behavior:
a field experiment Max Ernest-Jonesa et al
All this makes sense from a sociological point of view - WE ARE more restrained because we fear social disapproval. God is just a human projection of this trait as the ultimate disapproval from daddy sitting in the heavens.

Of course genuine self restraint does not come from seeking approval from others, including sky daddies, ghosts, spiritual beings or even "The God"
It is quite rational to be moral for its own sake without expectations for rewards or punishments, heavens or hells, approval or disapproval from others.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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18-01-2014, 10:25 AM
RE: Do you sin less as an athiest?
(18-01-2014 08:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  It was so nice to see this not fucking escalate. (benefit of the doubt, etc.)

Well done. Thumbsup

Wait, there was a chance for escalation and I missed it? Sadcryface

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18-01-2014, 10:30 AM
RE: Do you sin less as an athiest?
(18-01-2014 10:25 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 08:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  It was so nice to see this not fucking escalate. (benefit of the doubt, etc.)

Well done. Thumbsup

Wait, there was a chance for escalation and I missed it? Sadcryface

If you were more religious and less self restrained you would have launched Jihad & a crusade and never miss an opportunity at escalation. Your too relaxed watching gwynnite.
Gwynnite distracts from most escalations.
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18-01-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: Do you sin less as an athiest?
So, I was reading another thread, and it mentions the statue in Rio. I followed the link, checked out the photo's and I couldn't help but think how creepy it would feel to live there and would always feel like somebody's watching me (then I had to go watch the MJ vid on youtube, err…sorry sidetrack)

Here's the post from the other thread:
(18-01-2014 09:53 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 09:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  Not enough, though.

Shoulda blown his head clean off. Fucking Zeus is slacking. Dodgy

but then I come back here and see your post about the studies about the eyeballs and it all makes sense.

(18-01-2014 10:24 AM)Baruch Wrote:  I can relate to the above whilst I was a theist - somehow self restraint comes from the sky daddy watching you.
There is some psychological studies which back this up such as when eyes are stuck onto a donation box there was more donated than a picture of flowers (all sorts of similar replicated studies)
eg http://essay.utwente.nl/62328/
http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/daniel.nettle...ateson.pdf
Effects of eye images on everyday cooperative behavior:
a field experiment Max Ernest-Jonesa et al
All this makes sense from a sociological point of view - WE ARE more restrained because we fear social disapproval. God is just a human projection of this trait as the ultimate disapproval from daddy sitting in the heavens.

Of course genuine self restraint does not come from seeking approval from others, including sky daddies, ghosts, spiritual beings or even "The God"
It is quite rational to be moral for its own sake without expectations for rewards or punishments, heavens or hells, approval or disapproval from others.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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18-01-2014, 11:12 AM
RE: Do you sin less as an athiest?
I certainly don't "sin" any more!

As a Christian I was constantly enslaving the native peoples of lands that I conquered in the name of my god. Not to mention burning all those witches and heretics. (Tuesdays were especially busy!) Weekly raids into the Middle East. It was all just to much work!

Onward, my faithful steed!
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