Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
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09-01-2012, 11:06 AM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(09-01-2012 12:15 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  It's not unconstitutional at all. It's even making headway in the southern states. Some science classes now have to include a sticker inside their covers that state the evolution is just a theory.

Quoting the film clip, "The law as it stands requires Joe Wilke to teach evolution only." If Joe Wilke isn't teaching evolution only he's breaking the law. Teaching the "creationist view" was found unconstitutional (See McLean v. Arkansas, affirmed nationwide by US Supreme Court in Edwards v. Aguillard 1987). And the "just a theory" sticker was ruled against in Kitzmiller v. Dover, Selman v. Cobb County School District, and Freiler v. Tangipahoa Parish Board of Education.

Quote:The trick is to take the religion out of it. It's not "Creationism," that's a crazy religious story. It's "Intelligent Design," a highly scientific and plausible theory.

Kitzmiller v. Dover. Even IDstro Philip Johnson admitted the ID movement suffers because ID isn't a scientific theory.


Quote:I think we should go further. Let's teach Stork Theory alongside Human Reproduction and Alchemy with our Chemistry. Let the children decide for themselves which is correct.

Oooh! You got me good Blush
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09-01-2012, 01:21 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(09-01-2012 12:15 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
(05-01-2012 05:11 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  No. One is Science and the other is woo woo.

Been listening to a lot of Deepak Chopra lately? (Please tell me you haven't)


(06-01-2012 01:04 PM)Euripides Wrote:  No! Not in public schools. Besides, it's unconstitutional (in the US) to teach "both".

It's not unconstitutional at all. It's even making headway in the southern states. Some science classes now have to include a sticker inside their covers that state the evolution is just a theory. States that sound like this:







The trick is to take the religion out of it. It's not "Creationism," that's a crazy religious story. It's "Intelligent Design," a highly scientific and plausible theory.

I think we should go further. Let's teach Stork Theory alongside Human Reproduction and Alchemy with our Chemistry. Let the children decide for themselves which is correct.

He's a biology teacher? He doesn't understand biology!

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-01-2012, 09:11 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(03-10-2011 04:49 AM)robotworld Wrote:  I would say bad idea. One is based on conjecture without hard evidence to back up the conclusion, while the other is backed up with hard evidence and intensive research. It would be like teaching "Neutrons and Protons do not repel each other in the nucleus because GOD" versus "Neutrons and Protons do not repel each other in the nucleus due to the presence of gluons"

I disagree with this statement naturally because 1. I am Christian 2. I believe both Creation and Evolution cannot be repeated in a laboratory setting, making them both theories, and therefore, based on faith. So both is a case of which you choose to believe in. I choose to believe in a loving God who created people to serve Him. No I don't have all the answers and I am still human, but I believe a God loves me and I always have that when I am feeling down or shunned. 3. I believe that all views on science should be taught in schools making the students choose what they believe. They should be able to choose for themselves and not have one side of the coin shown to them constantly. Much like I believe church should show all views of the world and leave the ultimate decision up to the people there. That is my stance on this issue.
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09-01-2012, 09:33 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(09-01-2012 09:11 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 04:49 AM)robotworld Wrote:  I would say bad idea. One is based on conjecture without hard evidence to back up the conclusion, while the other is backed up with hard evidence and intensive research. It would be like teaching "Neutrons and Protons do not repel each other in the nucleus because GOD" versus "Neutrons and Protons do not repel each other in the nucleus due to the presence of gluons"

believe both Creation and Evolution cannot be repeated in a laboratory setting, making them both theories, and therefore, based on faith.

We have a winner! I just like feel evolution is true, you know, I just know it? I had a personal experience with natural selection once. The Origin of Species infallible. You have to have faith!

In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

--Stephen Jay Gould
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09-01-2012, 09:42 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(09-01-2012 12:15 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  [quote='TalladegaTom' pid='68078' dateline='1325805065']

No. One is Science and the other is woo woo.

Been listening to a lot of Deepak Chopra lately? (Please tell me you haven't)


Nah. I just like the term "woo woo". Cool
I think either James Randi coined it or maybe Shermer.
I don't remember which, but I like it and use it often.
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09-01-2012, 11:12 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(09-01-2012 09:11 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 04:49 AM)robotworld Wrote:  I would say bad idea. One is based on conjecture without hard evidence to back up the conclusion, while the other is backed up with hard evidence and intensive research. It would be like teaching "Neutrons and Protons do not repel each other in the nucleus because GOD" versus "Neutrons and Protons do not repel each other in the nucleus due to the presence of gluons"

I disagree with this statement naturally because 1. I am Christian 2. I believe both Creation and Evolution cannot be repeated in a laboratory setting, making them both theories, and therefore, based on faith.

The laboratory is not what makes something science.
Creation is not a theory, it is an idea.
A theory is a testable, falsifiable body of fact with explanatory and predictive power, supported by evidence. Evolution by natural selection is such a theory.

Quote: So both is a case of which you choose to believe in. I choose to believe in a loving God who created people to serve Him. No I don't have all the answers and I am still human, but I believe a God loves me and I always have that when I am feeling down or shunned.

Yes, you may choose to ignore evidence.

Quote:3. I believe that all views on science should be taught in schools making the students choose what they believe. They should be able to choose for themselves and not have one side of the coin shown to them constantly. Much like I believe church should show all views of the world and leave the ultimate decision up to the people there. That is my stance on this issue.

In science classes, various theories are taught. Creationism/ID is not a scientific theory.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-01-2012, 01:08 PM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2012 01:13 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
Instead of Chas' terse and deadly technique, I'll try a more humane and surrepetitious approach. Let's see who gets the point across first.

(09-01-2012 09:11 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  I disagree with this statement naturally because 1. I am Christian 2. I believe both Creation and Evolution cannot be repeated in a laboratory setting, making them both theories, and therefore, based on faith.
Don't underestimate the speed of evolution. If you want a modern proof of evolution in laboratory setting, one such took place in Soviet Union. Dmitri Belayev managed to turn a species of silver fox into dog-like animal in about 40 years, by selection only. This is a fine example of so-called macroevolution, resulting in visible changes in body structure and total change of behavior. Just don't show this website to any children economically attached to you, doxes are still very expensive.

(09-01-2012 09:11 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  So both is a case of which you choose to believe in. I choose to believe in a loving God who created people to serve Him. No I don't have all the answers and I am still human, but I believe a God loves me and I always have that when I am feeling down or shunned.
I like how someone had put it, people forget that truth is not democracy. There are facts and if your opinion is different, it's false. This is why it should not be taught. You can have a false opinion, but make sure to put a warning sign on top of it, so people can safely ignore you.
Those brave seekers of truth who actually update and change their opinions out of devotion to the reality are much more useful contributors to the society.

(09-01-2012 09:11 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  3. I believe that all views on science should be taught in schools making the students choose what they believe. They should be able to choose for themselves and not have one side of the coin shown to them constantly. Much like I believe church should show all views of the world and leave the ultimate decision up to the people there. That is my stance on this issue.
Why should we teach views on science instead of the science itself? I am sure your view of science is favorable anyway. You're using the computer, one of science's achievements. No religion was used in making this product.

Also, there is a difference between science and cultural (religious) activities. Scientific community is global and takes a great effort to upgrade and update itself and stay true all around the world. The same science (including its news) they teach you in London, they should teach you in Tokyo and New York. This is, because science is useful.
Views on science, religions and other cultural stuff is not appreciated by anyone else but its devotees, this is why it's taught only locally. The bastions of subjective, not very useful opinions (like Vatican, Mecca and Westboro) do not exchange knowledge to push each other into the future. You only endorse one of them because you grew into it wherever you grew up, not because it's proven. That's hell of a weak reason for teaching it in classes.
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10-01-2012, 02:07 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(10-01-2012 01:08 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Instead of Chas' terse and deadly technique, I'll try a more humane and surrepetitious approach. Let's see who gets the point across first.

Deadly?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-01-2012, 03:14 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(10-01-2012 02:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 01:08 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Instead of Chas' terse and deadly technique, I'll try a more humane and surrepetitious approach. Let's see who gets the point across first.

Deadly?

You never noticed that sometimes the guy you were talking to stopped replying? That was YOU Chas, you murdering bastard. Making his brain have a seizure by apply too much logic in a single dose.
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10-01-2012, 03:17 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(10-01-2012 03:14 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 02:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 01:08 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Instead of Chas' terse and deadly technique, I'll try a more humane and surrepetitious approach. Let's see who gets the point across first.

Deadly?

You never noticed that sometimes the guy you were talking to stopped replying? That was YOU Chas, you murdering bastard. Making his brain have a seizure by apply too much logic in a single dose.

If it killed his ability to spout nonsense, then my work was done.Big Grin

I do believe, however, that my worst fault as a writer is my terseness.Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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