Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
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03-10-2011, 05:58 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(03-10-2011 05:01 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 04:56 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  I knew what you meant, but still, I am against that as well.
What value is there to teaching them this? Its not useful information.

And a teacher in a class that is not under any sort of regulation or standards can teach just about whatever she/he wants. An unbiased atmosphere seems like wishful thinking.

I agree with sy2502. Most of the world is religious and so it is relevant to a childs life to know about religion, whether we like it or not.

Anyways I think it could actually be beneficial for a child. Let's face it, they gonna run into a brain washing fundie sooner or later so it's best to give them an unbiased account first so they are better prepared it and can see it for the shit it is without someone ramming it down their throats. It's like teaching kids about drugs, it's better they go into the world knowing the dangers and knowing the facts than going into the world totally ignorant and experimenting for themselves.

One of the problems I see is that many people accept the most imaginative parts of their religion without questions. For example, how many people accept the idea of the talking snake, or turning water into wine without a problem? Now, imagine if you start teaching all the fantastic teachings from all kinds of religions, like Zeus seducing women while in the form of a bull, or turtles holding the world on their back, etc. Maybe this would start to raise the question of how wacky one's religious stories really are, and that maybe they are invented as much all the others.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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03-10-2011, 06:03 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(03-10-2011 05:58 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  One of the problems I see is that many people accept the most imaginative parts of their religion without questions. For example, how many people accept the idea of the talking snake, or turning water into wine without a problem? Now, imagine if you start teaching all the fantastic teachings from all kinds of religions, like Zeus seducing women while in the form of a bull, or turtles holding the world on their back, etc. Maybe this would start to raise the question of how wacky one's religious stories really are, and that maybe they are invented as much all the others.

Exactly!

Let children hear all the stories alongside and equal to all the other mythological stuff that they already accept as BS. Then they are more likely to see it for what it really is instead of hearing it from some fundie who treats it as fact and will try and group it with things they accept as fact.

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03-10-2011, 06:52 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(03-10-2011 05:58 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 05:01 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 04:56 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  I knew what you meant, but still, I am against that as well.
What value is there to teaching them this? Its not useful information.

And a teacher in a class that is not under any sort of regulation or standards can teach just about whatever she/he wants. An unbiased atmosphere seems like wishful thinking.

I agree with sy2502. Most of the world is religious and so it is relevant to a childs life to know about religion, whether we like it or not.

Anyways I think it could actually be beneficial for a child. Let's face it, they gonna run into a brain washing fundie sooner or later so it's best to give them an unbiased account first so they are better prepared it and can see it for the shit it is without someone ramming it down their throats. It's like teaching kids about drugs, it's better they go into the world knowing the dangers and knowing the facts than going into the world totally ignorant and experimenting for themselves.

One of the problems I see is that many people accept the most imaginative parts of their religion without questions. For example, how many people accept the idea of the talking snake, or turning water into wine without a problem? Now, imagine if you start teaching all the fantastic teachings from all kinds of religions, like Zeus seducing women while in the form of a bull, or turtles holding the world on their back, etc. Maybe this would start to raise the question of how wacky one's religious stories really are, and that maybe they are invented as much all the others.

Or you can introduce such ideas in a philosophy class, and bring up that point directly. Rather than teaching various religions and kind of hope they stumble across the right answer.
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03-10-2011, 07:02 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(03-10-2011 06:52 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 05:58 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 05:01 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 04:56 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  I knew what you meant, but still, I am against that as well.
What value is there to teaching them this? Its not useful information.

And a teacher in a class that is not under any sort of regulation or standards can teach just about whatever she/he wants. An unbiased atmosphere seems like wishful thinking.

I agree with sy2502. Most of the world is religious and so it is relevant to a childs life to know about religion, whether we like it or not.

Anyways I think it could actually be beneficial for a child. Let's face it, they gonna run into a brain washing fundie sooner or later so it's best to give them an unbiased account first so they are better prepared it and can see it for the shit it is without someone ramming it down their throats. It's like teaching kids about drugs, it's better they go into the world knowing the dangers and knowing the facts than going into the world totally ignorant and experimenting for themselves.

One of the problems I see is that many people accept the most imaginative parts of their religion without questions. For example, how many people accept the idea of the talking snake, or turning water into wine without a problem? Now, imagine if you start teaching all the fantastic teachings from all kinds of religions, like Zeus seducing women while in the form of a bull, or turtles holding the world on their back, etc. Maybe this would start to raise the question of how wacky one's religious stories really are, and that maybe they are invented as much all the others.

Or you can introduce such ideas in a philosophy class, and bring up that point directly. Rather than teaching various religions and kind of hope they stumble across the right answer.

Yes, I would think that would be part of a good class. Unfortunately one never knows how good or bad a teacher he's going to get Sad Also you can just see some rabid parent descend on the school for badmouthing their religion and making it look like it's as silly as one of the other "false religions".

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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03-10-2011, 07:11 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2011 07:18 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(03-10-2011 07:02 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 06:52 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 05:58 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 05:01 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 04:56 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  I knew what you meant, but still, I am against that as well.
What value is there to teaching them this? Its not useful information.

And a teacher in a class that is not under any sort of regulation or standards can teach just about whatever she/he wants. An unbiased atmosphere seems like wishful thinking.

I agree with sy2502. Most of the world is religious and so it is relevant to a childs life to know about religion, whether we like it or not.

Anyways I think it could actually be beneficial for a child. Let's face it, they gonna run into a brain washing fundie sooner or later so it's best to give them an unbiased account first so they are better prepared it and can see it for the shit it is without someone ramming it down their throats. It's like teaching kids about drugs, it's better they go into the world knowing the dangers and knowing the facts than going into the world totally ignorant and experimenting for themselves.

One of the problems I see is that many people accept the most imaginative parts of their religion without questions. For example, how many people accept the idea of the talking snake, or turning water into wine without a problem? Now, imagine if you start teaching all the fantastic teachings from all kinds of religions, like Zeus seducing women while in the form of a bull, or turtles holding the world on their back, etc. Maybe this would start to raise the question of how wacky one's religious stories really are, and that maybe they are invented as much all the others.

Or you can introduce such ideas in a philosophy class, and bring up that point directly. Rather than teaching various religions and kind of hope they stumble across the right answer.

Yes, I would think that would be part of a good class. Unfortunately one never knows how good or bad a teacher he's going to get Sad Also you can just see some rabid parent descend on the school for badmouthing their religion and making it look like it's as silly as one of the other "false religions".

And you think that wouldn't happen in a religions class? Do you think they would accept their holy doctrines and stories taught as mythology?

They would get just as pissed off, if not more.
You will never be able to make all these religious people happy. They are so used to the unquestionable respect that they take any criticism as viciously hostile.
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04-10-2011, 02:17 AM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
Very simple answer. No, Creationism is a RELIGIOUS theory with 0 evidence, and evolution is a scientific FACT with unknown number of studies, theories and proofs. So there really is no point in even discussing this, I am amazed that there is any school in the world that would allow such a monstrosity, those teachers and school directors that allow it should be fired from school systems immediately and their licenses for teaching withdrawed.

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04-10-2011, 10:40 AM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(03-10-2011 09:06 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Yes. Every aspect of religion should be taught as an optional course in all schools. As mythology. Not as fact.

I would go even a step further and say it should be required to be taught in schools as fiction and myth with no argument whatsoever. There is too much false information going around as scientific spread by zealots of ignorance and kids are vulnerable to it. Let's face it, children are the only crowd that is vulnerable to that kind of misinformation. That kind of crap should be crushed from the git go with a vaccination of reality.

Dream on......

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04-10-2011, 11:00 AM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(04-10-2011 10:40 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 09:06 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Yes. Every aspect of religion should be taught as an optional course in all schools. As mythology. Not as fact.

I would go even a step further and say it should be required to be taught in schools as fiction and myth with no argument whatsoever. There is too much false information going around as scientific spread by zealots of ignorance and kids are vulnerable to it. Let's face it, children are the only crowd that is vulnerable to that kind of misinformation. That kind of crap should be crushed from the git go with a vaccination of reality.

Dream on......

64% of Americans actually believes the creation myth.
60% of Americans actually believe the Noahs arc myth.

They think these things actually happened!!!

Heck, just watch Faux News if you want to see some adult brain washing. Kids are not the only gullible ones floating around.
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04-10-2011, 11:03 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2011 11:18 AM by defacto7.)
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(04-10-2011 11:00 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(04-10-2011 10:40 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 09:06 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Yes. Every aspect of religion should be taught as an optional course in all schools. As mythology. Not as fact.

Dream on......

64% of Americans actually believes the creation myth.
60% of Americans actually believe the Noahs arc myth.

They think these things actually happened!!!

Heck, just watch Faux News if you want to see some adult brain washing. Kids are not the only gullible ones floating around.

Sorry guys, my keyboards going ape shit.... EDIT.....

Actually what I was saying is that the KIDS are the ones who are vulnerable. The adults aren't vulnerable. They are teaching the crap they learned as kids. On Faux news the adults just repeat and practice what they think they know so they don't loose ground to reality. If reality is gained, Faux news and that political bent gets weak.

They are after the kids. WE should be after the kids!

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05-10-2011, 02:20 AM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(04-10-2011 11:00 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(04-10-2011 10:40 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  
(03-10-2011 09:06 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Yes. Every aspect of religion should be taught as an optional course in all schools. As mythology. Not as fact.

I would go even a step further and say it should be required to be taught in schools as fiction and myth with no argument whatsoever. There is too much false information going around as scientific spread by zealots of ignorance and kids are vulnerable to it. Let's face it, children are the only crowd that is vulnerable to that kind of misinformation. That kind of crap should be crushed from the git go with a vaccination of reality.

Dream on......



64% of Americans actually believes the creation myth.
60% of Americans actually believe the Noahs arc myth.

They think these things actually happened!!!

Heck, just watch Faux News if you want to see some adult brain washing. Kids are not the only gullible ones floating around.

Those are old numbers it's now like 45% who believe in the creation myth, I'm not sure about the Noah's Arc thing though... but yeah it's dropping dramatically every year. Probably because... *gasp* it's not taught in schools anymore.

Anyways... I don't like those statistics because it doesn't account for the slightly less crazy idea that god 'helped' shape the world with theistic evolution.

So just pulling this out of my ass, but I think a lot more people believe in that one, versus the YEC kinda folks.

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