Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
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28-11-2011, 03:12 PM
 
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(28-11-2011 02:55 PM)kineo Wrote:  Absolutely not. Creationism has no place in the secular class room. I'm very thankful that I wasn't taught this in any of my public schools growing up. I'm also thankful I didn't go to any private schools.

Pseudoscience does not belong in the science class.

I agree 10000000%

But here is the rub. Those that buy into that nonsense (as i was one) dont see it anything other than 1000000% factual. Its signed-sealed-delivered factual truth. To speak otherwise is crazy talk. It is their world view and many of them have been taught this bunk since they were old enough to talk. They actually feel that 'science' is being left OUT of the classroom when creation is not being taught.

D
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28-11-2011, 03:18 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(28-11-2011 03:12 PM)Denicio Wrote:  
(28-11-2011 02:55 PM)kineo Wrote:  Absolutely not. Creationism has no place in the secular class room. I'm very thankful that I wasn't taught this in any of my public schools growing up. I'm also thankful I didn't go to any private schools.

Pseudoscience does not belong in the science class.

I agree 10000000%

But here is the rub. Those that buy into that nonsense (as i was one) dont see it anything other than 1000000% factual. Its signed-sealed-delivered factual truth. To speak otherwise is crazy talk. It is their world view and many of them have been taught this bunk since they were old enough to talk. They actually feel that 'science' is being left OUT of the classroom when creation is not being taught.

D

You're right, and that's a very good point. It's the same war that's been waged for years. Only now that this stuff has started to permeate the school system more and more using pseudoscience there are more people standing behind the Creationism and ID side of things. It's kind of scary and sad to see.
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28-11-2011, 03:24 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(28-11-2011 03:12 PM)Denicio Wrote:  But here is the rub. Those that buy into that nonsense (as i was one) dont see it anything other than 1000000% factual. Its signed-sealed-delivered factual truth. To speak otherwise is crazy talk. It is their world view and many of them have been taught this bunk since they were old enough to talk. They actually feel that 'science' is being left OUT of the classroom when creation is not being taught.

D

You are totally right.





fuck.

You have just begun reading the sentence you have just finished reading.
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28-11-2011, 03:53 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
I am puzzled by the people who insist that since creationism isn't true, it shouldn't be taught in school. "Alice in Wonderland" isn't true either, should we take it out of the curriculum together with all works of fiction? How about Greek or Norse mythology, it's not true either. Aristotle and Plato said things that weren't true, should we take them out of the curriculum?
Education isn't about teaching what's factual, but what matters. Whether we like to admit it or not, religions and philosophies have shaped society as it is today, and continue to play an important role. Pretending that isn't the case is like burying the head under the sand. Creationism and religion have no place in science classes, but taking them out completely makes little sense too.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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28-11-2011, 03:59 PM
 
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(28-11-2011 03:53 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  I am puzzled by the people who insist that since creationism isn't true, it shouldn't be taught in school. "Alice in Wonderland" isn't true either, should we take it out of the curriculum together with all works of fiction? How about Greek or Norse mythology, it's not true either. Aristotle and Plato said things that weren't true, should we take them out of the curriculum?
Education isn't about teaching what's factual, but what matters. Whether we like to admit it or not, religions and philosophies have shaped society as it is today, and continue to play an important role. Pretending that isn't the case is like burying the head under the sand. Creationism and religion have no place in science classes, but taking them out completely makes little sense too.

Taking it out TOTALLY out of school, no. But finding its rightful place is key here.

The Religious Reich is insistent on putting it ONLY in Science class.

I BET you a zillion dollars if we told them that they could have it IN school, but in the classes where they teach Greek Myths....they'd cry foul! To the point that they’d agree for it not to be taught at all. As they see it as TRUTH not MYTH.

THEY consider it SCIENCE..NOT a fable, not a myth, not anything less than the HANDBOOK for mankind. Actually they consider it MORE important than actual science. Again…its SUPER natural…so its MORE than natural to them.

So how can you negotiate with folks like that?
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28-11-2011, 04:05 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(03-10-2011 11:56 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Whether or not statement is true depends on what definition of evolution you are using. The word "evolution" has more than one meaning and a lot of confusion occurs if it is used without specifying what meaning is mean.

We observe gradual changes occurring in organisms so that different varieties can trace their ancestors to a single ancestor. One obvious example of this is the existence of different breeds of dog which are all descended from wolves. Everyone would agree that this kind of evolution is true and has been proven.

There is disagreement over what the starting point of this process was. When people speak of evolution they are often referring the the theory popularized by Charles Darwin that all forms of life arose from a single ancestor. Those who teach this are going beyond what we can observe. The Bible has a different explanation. It says that God created distinct kinds of life and we know from observation that these original kinds have the ability to develop into different forms.

Quote:Evolutionists assume that all life started from one or a few chemically evolved life forms with an extremely small gene pool. For evolutionists, enlargement of the gene pool by selection of random mutations is a slow, tedious process that burdens each type with a “genetic load” of harmful mutations and evolutionary leftovers. Creationists assume each created kind began with a large gene pool, designed to multiply and fill the earth with all its tremendous ecologic and geographic variety. (See Genesis chapter 1.)

Neither creationist nor evolutionist was there at the beginning to see how it was done, but at least the creationist mechanism works, and it’s consistent with what we observe. The evolutionist assumption doesn’t work, and it’s not consistent with what we presently know of genetics and reproduction. As a scientist, I prefer ideas that do work and do help to explain what we can observe, and that’s creation!

According to the creation concept, each kind starts with a large gene pool present in created, probably “average-looking,” parents. As descendants of these created kinds become isolated, each average-looking (“generalized”) type would tend to break up into a variety of more “specialized” descendants adapted to different environments. Thus, the created ancestors of dogs, for example, have produced such varieties in nature as wolves, coyotes, and jackals. Human beings, of course, have great diversity, too. As the Bible says, God made of “one blood” (or one gene pool) all the “tribes and tongues and nations” of the earth.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles...thin-kinds

One reason people reject creation as being unscientific is that they simply don't know what creationists believe and how much evidence there is in support of creation.

There is no disagreement among biologists about where evolution started, this is a strawman concocted by creationists. All life is descended from one source.
We don't have to have been there to know this, all of the DNA evidence points to this.
The idea of "kinds" is Biblical, not scientific. The Bible is not a source of scientific truth; there are no answers in Genesis.
I am quite familiar with what creationists believe; you are not familiar with what biologists know.
I suggest you do some reading on evolution.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-11-2011, 04:22 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(28-11-2011 03:59 PM)Denicio Wrote:  
(28-11-2011 03:53 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  I am puzzled by the people who insist that since creationism isn't true, it shouldn't be taught in school. "Alice in Wonderland" isn't true either, should we take it out of the curriculum together with all works of fiction? How about Greek or Norse mythology, it's not true either. Aristotle and Plato said things that weren't true, should we take them out of the curriculum?
Education isn't about teaching what's factual, but what matters. Whether we like to admit it or not, religions and philosophies have shaped society as it is today, and continue to play an important role. Pretending that isn't the case is like burying the head under the sand. Creationism and religion have no place in science classes, but taking them out completely makes little sense too.

Taking it out TOTALLY out of school, no. But finding its rightful place is key here.

The Religious Reich is insistent on putting it ONLY in Science class.

I BET you a zillion dollars if we told them that they could have it IN school, but in the classes where they teach Greek Myths....they'd cry foul! To the point that they’d agree for it not to be taught at all. As they see it as TRUTH not MYTH.

THEY consider it SCIENCE..NOT a fable, not a myth, not anything less than the HANDBOOK for mankind. Actually they consider it MORE important than actual science. Again…its SUPER natural…so its MORE than natural to them.

So how can you negotiate with folks like that?

Once again Denicio, I agree. Big Grin

And sy2502, I agree with you as well- sure it shouldn't be left out.

In one social studies class I had in high school, I recall learning about world history and in it we covered mythology and religion together in a very broad sense. No one complained, to my knowledge. It's hard for me to remember clearly, though, if Christianity was taught as "more true" than the others. If Creationism is taught as fact, then I have a problem with that. If the evidence of the world history as we understand it is present and the conclusions we can draw are taught, then great! If all of the evidence was presented along with the explanation of how and why science draws the conclusions it does is presented then I think very few people would continue to believe in creation science over real science.
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28-11-2011, 05:05 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
As a Christian - no.

Science doesn't belong in a religion class, likewise, religion doesn't belong in a science class. Moreover, theologians shouldn't try to explain science, and scientists shouldn't explain theology.

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28-11-2011, 05:10 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
(28-11-2011 04:22 PM)kineo Wrote:  
(28-11-2011 03:59 PM)Denicio Wrote:  
(28-11-2011 03:53 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  I am puzzled by the people who insist that since creationism isn't true, it shouldn't be taught in school. "Alice in Wonderland" isn't true either, should we take it out of the curriculum together with all works of fiction? How about Greek or Norse mythology, it's not true either. Aristotle and Plato said things that weren't true, should we take them out of the curriculum?
Education isn't about teaching what's factual, but what matters. Whether we like to admit it or not, religions and philosophies have shaped society as it is today, and continue to play an important role. Pretending that isn't the case is like burying the head under the sand. Creationism and religion have no place in science classes, but taking them out completely makes little sense too.

Taking it out TOTALLY out of school, no. But finding its rightful place is key here.

The Religious Reich is insistent on putting it ONLY in Science class.

I BET you a zillion dollars if we told them that they could have it IN school, but in the classes where they teach Greek Myths....they'd cry foul! To the point that they’d agree for it not to be taught at all. As they see it as TRUTH not MYTH.

THEY consider it SCIENCE..NOT a fable, not a myth, not anything less than the HANDBOOK for mankind. Actually they consider it MORE important than actual science. Again…its SUPER natural…so its MORE than natural to them.

So how can you negotiate with folks like that?

Once again Denicio, I agree. Big Grin

And sy2502, I agree with you as well- sure it shouldn't be left out.

In one social studies class I had in high school, I recall learning about world history and in it we covered mythology and religion together in a very broad sense. No one complained, to my knowledge. It's hard for me to remember clearly, though, if Christianity was taught as "more true" than the others. If Creationism is taught as fact, then I have a problem with that. If the evidence of the world history as we understand it is present and the conclusions we can draw are taught, then great! If all of the evidence was presented along with the explanation of how and why science draws the conclusions it does is presented then I think very few people would continue to believe in creation science over real science.

I was replying to the posts that affirmed creationism has NO place in class (and there were several). I beg to differ.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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28-11-2011, 05:20 PM
RE: Do you support the idea of teaching both Creation and Evolution theory in schools?
Man, creationism ain't nothing but the will of a few to direct the will of the many. If one ain't as an extremest as crazy ol' Johnny Cantor, what should be taught in school is a comparative religion class.

I never read no creationism in no Bible, just like I ain't read no Rapture... or do you wanna teach that in class too? Social Studies, perhaps?

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